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<p><i>&#8220;[S]ince the day I [discovered <a href="http://www.takeninhand.com/" class="site">Taken In Hand</a>] I have rediscovered my feminity.&#8221;</i><br />
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;- <a href="http://www.takeninhand.com/node/1339#comment-9878" target="_blank">Saima from Pakistan</a></p>
<p><i>&#8220;[<a href="http://www.takeninhand.com/" class="site">Taken In Hand</a> is] a necessary read... Very complex, lots of power shifts, combining respect with pain, and pleasure. Domination roles. Submissive roles. The whole shebang. I'm glad I found it.&#8221;</i><br />
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;- <a href="http://dutchman55555.livejournal.com/8221.html" target="_blank">Dutchman</a></p>
<p><i>&#8220;<a href="http://www.takeninhand.com/" class="site">Taken In Hand</a>... is the name of a website that I discovered  less than two years ago and which made a big difference to my life.  It made me understand what it was I wanted and helped me to come to terms with my own feelings and gave me the impetus to talk seriously to my husband about our relationship for the first time ever really. The site is about male-led relationships which do not necessarily have to involve spanking.  The owner of the site is more interested in other aspects of male control. There are a lot of interesting articles on the site.&#8221;</i><br />
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;- <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/1domesticdiscipline/message/35475" target="_blank">Louise C</a></p>
<p><i>&#8220;<a href="http://www.takeninhand.com/" class="site">Taken In Hand</a> is male led but male intimately led. ... I do like the <a href="http://www.takeninhand.com/" class="site">Taken In Hand</a> focus on family and the focus that marriage is between one man and one woman.  That is actually very important to me.&#8221;</i><br />
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;- <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Taken_In_Hand/message/1012" target="_blank">Frank Nelson</a></p>
<p><i>&#8220;[I]n <a href="http://www.takeninhand.com/" class="site">Taken In Hand</a>, I am enhancing and extending my power as a woman, and enriching my life and personality. I give up NOTHING, and gain the world.... [M]y perception of <a href="http://www.takeninhand.com/" class="site">Taken In Hand</a> is that there are few other venues that can compare for teaching men the responsible, healthy uses of power. It gives men skills and confidence they can use not just in their sexual relationships, but also with their children, in their professions, and out in the community. <a href="http://www.takeninhand.com/" class="site">Taken In Hand</a> requires a far higher level of courage, sacrifice, responsibility, and personal integrity than many so-called &#8216;doms&#8217; will even think to aspire to.&#8221;</i><br />
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;- <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Taken_In_Hand/message/1010" target="_blank">Sara</a></p>
<p><i>&#8220;<a href="http://www.takeninhand.com/" class="site">Taken In Hand</a> is about having the man in charge because you like it like that, it's not about blind obedience or never having your own way about anything.&#8221;</i><br />
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;- <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Taken_In_Hand/message/1004" target="_blank">Louise</a></p>
<p><i>&#8220;I feel the best spanking site is <a href="http://www.takeninhand.com/" class="site">Taken in Hand</a>.  I have referred hundreds of people to that site and have the link on my Yahoo profile.&#8221;</i><br />
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;- <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JewishPowerExchange/message/6124" target="_blank">Tess</a></p>
<p><i>&#8220;First of all, all you guys should check out this website,  <a href="http://www.takeninhand.com/">www.takeninhand.com</a>, very interesting stuff here, check out the <a href="http://www.takeninhand.com/node/125">Commanding Presence</a>  [and] <a href="http://www.takeninhand.com/node/342">Alpha Males</a> articles, [...] very valuable insights. [...] I'm taken by this site.&#8221;</i><br />
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;- <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/seduction_dating/message/971" target="_blank">Eric</a></p>
<p><i>&#8220;[U]ntil 2 days ago I thought I was a crazy, ... abnormal<br />
woman. [T]hen I stumbled onto the <a href="http://www.takeninhand.com/" class="site">Taken in Hand</a> website. I have never felt such relief, such internal peace in my life. This whole idea of being loved and trusting enough in another to place my, his and our well-being into his hands was exactly what I have been searching for my whole life. I spent 16 hours just reading... It is like a huge weight has lifted off my shoulders.&#8221;</i><br />
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;- <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/1domesticdiscipline/message/33437" target="_blank">Melissa</a></p>
<p><i>&#8220;I enjoyed [<a href="http://www.takeninhand.com/" class="site">Taken In Hand</a>] very much and I recommend that everyone here visits it.&#8221;</i><br />
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;- <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Profound_submission/message/15848" target="_blank">Loveart</a></p>
<p><i>&#8220;<a href="http://www.takeninhand.com/" class="site">Taken In Hand</a> is serious about the nature of male-female relationships, dominance, submission (not the leather-and-stud kind), in way I find exhilarating, honest, refreshing, courageous, and exciting.&#8221;</i><br />
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;- <a href="http://honeybunlife.blogspot.com/2005/02/taken-in-hand-i-want-to-be-possessed.html" target="_blank">HoneyBun</a></p>
<p><i>&#8220;<a href="http://www.takeninhand.com/" class="site">Taken In Hand</a>: Fascinating BDSM blog that deals with difficult and hot topics!&#8221;</i><br />
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;- <a href="http://www.submissivewomenspeak.net/links.htm" target="_blank">Polly Peachum</a></p>
<p><i>&#8220;The <a href="http://www.takeninhand.com/" class="site">Taken in Hand</a> website has proven to be a valuable source for intelligent and well thought out articles exploring [male-led relationships]. [...] For women who have longed for a relationship such as this and have no idea where to start, this is a great site for you.  For men that want to better understand the whole concept from a women’s point of view, this site is a must read.&#8221;</i><br />
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;- <a href="http://www.thespankingblog.com/index.php/weblog/comments/domestic_discipline_articles_spanked_wife_punished_spouse/" target="_blank">Michael Masterson</a></p>
<p><i>&#8220;It's a great site.&#8221;</i><br />
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;- <a href="http://groups.msn.com/DomesticDisciplineandHOHRelationships/general.msnw?action=get_message&#038;mview=1&#038;ID_Message=2754" target="_blank">Gem</a></p>
<p><i>&#8220;If you think <b>my</b> perspective on dating isn't politically correct you should go read <a href="http://www.takeninhand.com/" class="site">Taken In Hand</a>. [It has] posts with titles like, <a href="http://www.takeninhand.com/when.rape.is.a.gift" title="Read this post">When rape is a gift</a>. You go, girl.  Defy those hairy-armpitted feminists and enjoy yourself. :)&#8221;</i><br />
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;- <a href="http://jacquelinepassey.blogs.com/blog/2004/04/if_you_think_my.html" target="_blank">Jacqueline Passey</a></p>
<p><i>&#8220;great site.&#8221;</i><br />
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;- <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Profound_submission/message/15658" target="_blank">valerie</a></p>
<p><i>&#8220;There are lots of websites for people in the BDSM, D/s, DD (domestic discipline) and spanking communities. There are websites for people who belong to religions that advocate male-head-of-household marriage. There are even websites for Christians who are interested in BDSM. But there are very few websites for people who are interested in male-led intimate relationships but who are not interested in all that the above communities associate with this kind of relationship (jargon, clothes, etc.)<br />
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Some of us don't even like thinking of this as a lifestyle. [...]<br />
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;If you are interested in this kind of relationship but are not interested in BDSM or D/s or DD or spanking websites, there's a new website for you: <a href="http://www.takeninhand.com/" class="site">Taken In Hand</a>&#8221;</i><br />
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;- <a href="http://www.powerandlove.com/cgi-bin/blosxom.cgi/power/taken_in_hand.writeback" target="_blank">Tom Newman</a></p>
<p><i>&#8220;[<a href="http://www.takeninhand.com/" class="site">Taken In Hand</a>] is really the most beautiful website devoted to DD.&#8221;</i><br />
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;- <a href="http://groups.msn.com/DomesticDisciplineandHOHRelationships/general.msnw?action=get_message&#038;mview=1&#038;ID_Message=1860" target="_blank">PaLady</a></p>
<p><i>&#8220;[<a href="http://www.takeninhand.com/" class="site">Taken In Hand</a>] is my major kink&#8221;</i><br />
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;- <a href="http://bondage.com/topic_id/101212/p/3/forums/topic.html" target="_blank">Spoiledgrrl</a></p>
<p><i>&#8220;[<a href="http://www.takeninhand.com/" class="site">Taken In Hand</a> is an] erudite and intelligent site&#8221;</i><br />
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;- <a href="http://www.submissivewife.org/wisdom1.html" target="_blank">Emily Cox</a></p>
<p><i>&#8220;[<a href="http://www.takeninhand.com/" class="site">Taken In Hand</a> is a]n excellent site with many thought-provoking articles and responses.&#8221;</i><br />
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;- <a href="http://groups.msn.com/DomesticDisciplineandHOHRelationships/links.msnw" target="_blank">Doug</a></p>
<p><i>&#8220;[<a href="http://www.takeninhand.com/" class="site">Taken In Hand</a> is] one of the most exciting sites on the internet!&#8221;</i><br />
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;- <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Discipline-Harmony/message/856" target="_blank">Malcolm</a></p>
<p><i>&#8220;[T]he whole damn site really is one of the most well articulated (pro/con) loaded blogs I've seen. It provides a cross section of how people are feeling out there even amongst those who are &#8216;seemingly&#8217; natural allies.&#8221;</i><br />
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;- <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RavNet/message/13" target="_blank">zbigdogX</a></p>
<p><i>&#8220;As I view it, I'm a control freak. I love to be in control. However, I fantasize about that control being stripped from me and handed over to someone else....namely, my husband. I'm just glad I found a site that makes me realize I'm not a freak for wanting to be dominated&#8221;</i><br />
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;- <a href="http://www.gypsygirl.net/gypsygirl-archives/000580.html" target="_blank">GypsyGirl</a></p>
<p><i>&#8220;I was delighted to receive word of <a href="http://www.takeninhand.com/" class="site">Taken In Hand</a>. ... a very thoughtful and well-written group blog. ... I'm looking forward to reading through this blog the way I look forward to reading a new novel by a favorite author. It looks that good.&#8221;</i><br />
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;- <a href="http://www.spankingblog.com/arc20031001.htm#BlogID1336" target="_blank">SpankBoss</a></p>
<p><i>&#8220;Wow. This site is so amazing.&#8221;</i><br />
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;- <a href="http://suburbansexblog.blogspot.com/2004_03_01_suburbansexblog_archive.html#108076909396883405" target="_blank">Ken</a></p>
<p><i>&#8220;&#8220;[<a href="http://www.takeninhand.com/" class="site">Taken In Hand</a> is] a wonderful website ... from a MaleDom/femsub perspective ... [I]t's about the interpersonal dynamics of loving relationships where the man is the boss. [I]t's assumed that both partners are in it because that's what they want and have chosen. Also, unlike many other &#8216;traditional marriage&#8217; sites, it's not coming from any sort of biblical perspective. ... Some of the best writing I've seen on these topics, from a variety of authors.&#8221;</i><br />
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;- <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TraditionalDs/message/2990" target="_blank">Dee</a></p>
<p><i>&#8220;[<a href="http://www.takeninhand.com/" class="site">Taken In Hand</a> is] a brill resource.... for info articles... and real life experiences&#8221;</i><br />
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;- <a href="http://www.britishspanking.com/forums/showpost.php?p=360157&#038;postcount=13" target="_blank">Spirited Angel</a></p>
<p><i>&#8220;A very cool site&#8221;</i><br />
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;- <a href="http://www.greeblie.com/theyeti/arch/012996.html" target="_blank">The Yeti</a></p>
<p><i>&#8220;Thank you for providing such a positive, validating place for like-minded people to talk about this in a way that affirms the dignity of both men and women&#8221;</i><br />
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;- <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Taken_In_Hand/message/19" target="_blank">Mary</a></p>
<p><i>&#8220;a great site&#8221;</i><br />
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;- <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Discipline-Harmony/message/821" target="_blank">Jana Peterson</a></p>
<p><i>&#8220;an exremely high quality site... I highly recommend [<a href="http://www.takeninhand.com/" class="site">Taken In Hand</a>].&#8221;</i><br />
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<h2 id="title" class="title">My husband's calm control makes me feel submissive</h2>
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<div class="content"><p>My husband and I had been together for 22 years (on and off), before we got around to this kind of relationship.  It has made a big difference to our lives, but not because of spanking. That was something we had been doing anyway.  My husband had been spanking me all that time without it making me happier, sweeter, or more obedient (except on a very temporary basis).  This is why I am slightly surprised by articles that suggest that spanking a woman can make an enormous difference to her attitude etc, because this was not the case with me.  It required a sort of mental adjustment that was about more than spanking.</p>
<p>Spanking is an important part of our sexual and emotional life, and I certainly would hate to do without it, but it is not the thing that has made the big difference to my relationship with my husband, it is a change of mind that has brought about the change in our marriage.  I seem to be sexually turned on all the time these days too. It's nice, but spanking isn't what has done it.</p>
<p>It's about being willing submit. I love feeling submissive, but it's a feeling I only ever had spasmodically until recently.  I didn't know it was possible to have it as a (mostly) permanent feeling.</p>
<p>It wasn't because my husband wasn't assertive enough. He can, as I've said elsewhere, be assertive enough for ten, he just never went about it in the right way. It wasn't that he was unwilling to take the lead, just that I always resisted his attempts at leadership.</p>
<p>With me, the big difference was finding that he is able to control himself, and therefore can control me.  Last night, for instance, in a tense PMT mood, I snarled at him about something, and waited for him to lose his temper and snarl back, thereby feeding my anger, as he would have done in the past.  </p>
<p>Instead, he just looked at me, smiled slightly and said, &#8220;We'll talk about your little outburst later&#8221; (&#8220;talking&#8221; being a euphemism for him taking me out to his workshop and walloping the living daylights out of me).  Instantly, my anger ebbed away to be replaced by that incredible mixture of anticipation, apprehension and arousal (the AAA effect), that I always feel in this situation.  </p>
<p>It's not the threat of the spanking in itself that does it, though that of course is important, the major turn-on is the fact that with a word he can eliminate the anger and restore the &#8216;s&#8217; feeling! </p>
<p><a href="http://www.takeninhand.com/taxonomy/term/103">Louise C</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.takeninhand.com/node/160">Taken In Hand Tour start</a> | <a href="http://www.takeninhand.com/node/373">next</a><br />
<hr><b>Have you seen the following articles?</b><br />
<a href="http://www.takeninhand.com/node/254">The sexuality of &#8216;non-sexual&#8217; dominance</a><br />
<a href="http://www.takeninhand.com/node/180">Does it have to hurt to be Taken In Hand?</a><br />
<a href="http://www.takeninhand.com/node/75">Equality isn't all it's cracked up to be</a><br />
<A HREF="http://www.takeninhand.com/node/136">The healing power of taking her in hand</A><br />
<a href="http://www.takeninhand.com/node/186">What I get out of it</a><br />
<a href="http://www.takeninhand.com/node/197">A breakdown on the road to intimacy</a><br />
<a href="http://www.takeninhand.com/node/414">How can a strong woman signal her submissiveness?</a><br />
<A HREF="http://www.takeninhand.com/node/47">American Beauty meets <i>The Surrendered Wife</i></A><br />
<A HREF="http://www.takeninhand.com/node/78">First year trials</A><br />
<a href="http://www.takeninhand.com/node/245">Actions speak louder than words</a></p>
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<h3 class="title"><a href="http://www.takeninhand.com/my.husbands.calm.control.makes.me.feel.submissive#comment-3345" title="Link to this comment." class="active">Re: Feeling submissive</a></h3>

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<p>So are you saying that if he hadn't threatened a spanking his calm attitude would make you feel equally submissive?</p>
<p>"Pat"</p>

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<div class="links">by "Pat" on 2005 Jan 1 - 21:54 | <a href="user/login">login</a> or <a href="user/register">register</a> to post comments</div>

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<h3 class="title"><a href="http://www.takeninhand.com/my.husbands.calm.control.makes.me.feel.submissive#comment-3346" title="Link to this comment." class="active">the threat of spanking</a></h3>

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<p>No, I think I need the spanking as well, but on its own it's never been enough.</p>
<p>Spanking is something that I've always had a craving for, and that my husband has always done because he knows I want it.  But it never made me feel submissive except for very brief periods.</p>
<p>What has been the big turn-on for me is that he now controls his temper instead of losing it, he doesn't let my bad temper goad him into losing his, thereby feeding my own anger.  Instead he is able to subdue my own temper with a word, or sometimes just a look.</p>
<p>Knowing that I'm going to get spanked is very arousing for me, but it has never in itself been enough to make any change to my feelings or attitude, being spanked never changed anything for me, and indeed it still doesn't.</p>
<p>I don't have the very dramatic emotional reaction to being spanked that some people on this site have described, not even nowadays when I get spanked a lot longer and harder than ever before.  I don't feel changed or transformed or anything. Usually I just feel like a good fuck.</p>
<p>I've never had any interest in the idea of physical force, or of what is called 'consensual non-consent'. If my husband tried to drag me out to spank me when I was in a bad mood it would be disastrous, it would just make me angrier and more upset.  I need to go willingly (if apprehensively) or it doesn't work for me.  But if I didn't get the spanking I'd probably get very frustrated.  But it seems to work differently for me than it does for some others.  I can't be spanked into submission, I need to be made to feel submissive before being spanked. He could spank me till his arm dropped off, but if I wasn't feeling submissive to start with, it wouldn't change anything.</p>

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<div class="links">by <a href="user/764" title="View user profile.">Louise C</a> on 2005 Jan 2 - 05:55 | <a href="user/login">login</a> or <a href="user/register">register</a> to post comments</div>

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<h3 class="title"><a href="http://www.takeninhand.com/my.husbands.calm.control.makes.me.feel.submissive#comment-3355" title="Link to this comment." class="active">Same Here</a></h3>

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<p>Yes, it's always been that way for me also, it is words, manner and mindset that call forth any submissiveness on my part and not being physically subdued or spanked. The spanking is something I like but as far as making me submissive, it is irrelevant.</p>
<p>"Pat"</p>

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<div class="links">by "Pat" on 2005 Jan 2 - 21:18 | <a href="user/login">login</a> or <a href="user/register">register</a> to post comments</div>

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<h3 class="title"><a href="http://www.takeninhand.com/my.husbands.calm.control.makes.me.feel.submissive#comment-3378" title="Link to this comment." class="active">Spanking is not enough</a></h3>

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<p>Louise, I agree with your point that a spanking alone will not change your attitude. The good submissive feelings that arise when you are told you are about to be spanked flow from the trust and respect you have for your husband.</p>
<p>You wrote:</p>
<blockquote><p>With me, the big difference was finding that he is able to control himself, and therefore can control me.</p></blockquote>
<p>I couldn't agree more. There is no doubt that a spanking alone cannot produce the kind of good feelings (AAA) that you feel after your husband informs you that it is time for a "talk". Any fool can spank, but it is obvious from what you write that he has gained your trust and admiration. His self-control is just one of several good qualities that he possesses that, not only allows you to submit to his discipline, but makes you really want him to take control. Dominance alone can not be his only good quality or you would not allow him to lay a finger on you. Dominance, as a masculine characteristic in of itself, is neither good or bad.  Let's face it there is such a thing as a dominant jerk. These kind of men are too self involved or lack maturity or lack self control and should not be trusted with something so precious as your submission. Even though you may fantasize about being spanked, it is the one who is doing the spanking that makes such an event especially meaningful.</p>

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<div class="links">by <a href="user/35" title="View user profile.">Stephen</a> on 2005 Jan 3 - 21:54 | <a href="user/login">login</a> or <a href="user/register">register</a> to post comments</div>

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<h3 class="title"><a href="http://www.takeninhand.com/my.husbands.calm.control.makes.me.feel.submissive#comment-3386" title="Link to this comment." class="active">Four A's</a></h3>

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<p>Louise, you stated  </p>
<blockquote><p>Instantly, my anger ebbed away to be replaced by that incredible mixture of anticipation, apprehension and arousal (the AAA effect), that I always feel in this situation.</p></blockquote>
<p>I experience the three A's too.<br />
I would say that the level of each of these three A’s varies depending on what kind of spanking it is going to be, erotic or punishment or a combination of both.  When it is purely erotic there is only a little apprehension.  More apprehension if I'm in a particularly emotional state. I’ll usually feel a lot of arousal and a lot of anticipation.  </p>
<p> If I am being purely punished (no sex involved) then the apprehension is pretty high and there is also a fourth "A" which is apology.  Not necessarily a verbal apology but a feeling of great sorrow for whatever I did that was so disappointing to myself and to my husband. I will feel sad in a certain way and very willingly and compliantly bend over and hold still as long as I can (which is sometimes not very long during a real punishment). I will feel an anticipation which is somewhat positive and somewhat negative.  I look forward to it and then in a way I don't. It's sort of confusing even to me.  </p>
<p>There is arousal during these punishment spankings too.  In fact it is very arousing and definitely a very emotionally bonding experience for my husband and me.  Interestingly enough, in some ways the punishment spankings are more arousing than the erotic type.  They always bring a strong sense of all four A's.  </p>
<p>These spankings are fairly rare but give me a strong sense of peace and emotional bonding for many days afterward.  We have no sex afterward and sometimes I have a hard time sleeping because I feel sort of emotionally worked up and also physically uncomfortable for a few hours afterward.</p>

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<div class="links">by forty something wife on 2005 Jan 4 - 07:31 | <a href="user/login">login</a> or <a href="user/register">register</a> to post comments</div>

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<h3 class="title"><a href="http://www.takeninhand.com/my.husbands.calm.control.makes.me.feel.submissive#comment-3388" title="Link to this comment." class="active">Four As</a></h3>

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<p>I also find punishment spankings very arousing, and sometimes I do feel a genuine sense of regret for whatever it is I have done, though not always (sometimes the only thing I regret is that it hurts so much, which is not quite the same as feeling apologetic).</p>
<p>However, we almost always have sex afterwards, because both of us find it an arousing experience, the only time we don't have sex is if my husband is too tired, which fortunately isn't very often.  There is never really an occasion when there is no sex involved.</p>

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<div class="links">by <a href="user/764" title="View user profile.">Louise C</a> on 2005 Jan 4 - 08:20 | <a href="user/login">login</a> or <a href="user/register">register</a> to post comments</div>

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