Re this comment:

What you're doing is irresponsible pure and simple. Not once is your entire article did you mention consent or having a safeword. I have to question the motives of anyone, man or woman, who advocates playing hardcore rape scenes without a safeword. And where's the "wear a condom"? What about AIDS? Remember: Safe, Sane and Consensual?

Um, I believe she actually does mention consent and she never said to do it without a safeword. It's just a general article. It wasn't a how to book. If it's a husband and wife doing this together, why would he have to wear a condom? I think you're thinking in terms of picking someone up and having them "rape" you. She never said do it with a stranger so why bring up AIDS? I'm VERY safe sex minded but she never said what type of relationship the couple should be in. I think you're just looking for flaws to her article.

I can understand the readers' fears. What the writer was describing however, is not Rape but rather, being taken. There's a vastly different dynamic with respect to actual rape. I'm sure the writer knows that, Rape is a crime. A crime of forcing another person to submit to sex acts against thier will. Since this was pre arranged and consented to, it has nothing to do with Rape. The writer is confused or looking for conflict...what did she expect?

Thanks.

Someone wrote:

I certainly hope that there is not a potential rapist out there, reading your comments, who is 'sparked' to enact his 'fantasies' in real life (ie. without consent).

It may just be me, but I'm reading that comment as disapproval of the whole thread, maybe even a feeling we shouldn't discuss this sort of thing in public in case some-one gets the wrong idea. And that worries me.

I also hope no-one reads this thread and gets the wrong idea and I would guess most, if not all, of the people posting feel the same. But I don't think that worry should stop us discussing our fantasies in a forum like this. Most people, reading this thread, will react in similar ways to the various commenters. Most people will not decide it's the validation they need to go out and force their attentions on a complete stranger, regardless of said stranger's desires. The sort of person who would use these posts as justification for their desire to commit a crime would not find it hard to find other material to justify their actions to themselves if this thread had never occured.

I could go on, but that would run the risk of becoming a serious, off topic, rant. So I think I'll stop here...

--

"There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so" Hamlet, somewhere.

Yes, why does the boss use that terminology and what is the "gift" this fantasy gives? Where is the "gift" in violence against a woman? This is sicko. Any woman who wants this needs to get help before it's too late.

I can't quite believe that this thread is still going, and that the same questions and advice keep popping up:

Yes, why does the boss use that terminology and what is the "gift" this fantasy gives? Where is the "gift" in violence against a woman?

I refer you to the answers I gave earlier, and indeed, to the article at the start of this thread.

Where is the "gift" in violence against a woman?

In case anyone is still left behind, let me stress that it would not be a gift to ‘rape’ any woman, only one who wanted that. Violence is not necessarily a gift, any more than it is necessarily wrong. It all depends on the individual situation. But to suggest that no woman in her right mind could possibly ever want a bit of high intensity rough sex – even violent sex – even sex that might look to an observer like real rape – is to suggest that a frighteningly large proportion of women need help. I should have thought that at least a few of those women are quite sane; wouldn't you?

This is sicko. Any woman who wants this needs to get help before it's too late.

Too late? For what? Too late to save her life as she is being beaten to a bloody pulp like one of the less fortunate characters in a film I watched the other night? Are men really so bad as all that? I don't think so. But perhaps we move in different circles!

The ugly: That rape still happens. But then again, rape is -- as has been stated many times in the comments above -- about violence, not about sex.

The good: the boss's article, which was about rape fantasies -- about sex!!!!

The bad: The number of people who misinterpreted her point. Perhaps you have taken the boss too literally.

Of course, it's also possible that I missed the point, so let me see if I can summarize:

- Some women have what could be called rape fantasies. That is, fantasies about being taken against their will. (Which can be attested to by the number of women who have admitted that they share this fantasy.)

- That the idea of rape -- even when considered in sexual fantasy -- carries with it very dark emotions and very ugly images for both men and women. (Which can be attested to by the number of men who have expressed their repugnance at the idea of rape, even in the context of fantasy.)

- That if you and your partner (with the woman having stated a clear desire to act out a rape fantasy) can get past the dark emotions and images, she (and he) might just experience some mind-blowing sex.

And that is the gift: mind-blowing sex and the incredible afterglow that comes from the deepest of intimacies.

That's my take on it. the boss, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Steve

The idea of Safe, Sane and Consensual does not relieve either party of making sure it is thusly for them before they ever go into any sort of play/scene. The things that you list needing to have been covered, weren't necessarily requisite for this article.

Because they are 'gimme's'.

It is no different than knowing not to take the hair dryer into the shower with you. I hardly think anyone has to be reminded about it ... it's just a 'gimme'.

This is all very interesting .. but..

For every good experience there will be a bad one, possibly between two married people. The attraction is danger and the danger is more real if its close to the line. Women can react unpredictably at this point, hence the unease amongst men.

I am a new reader, and have been following the "rape" controversy with a great deal of amusement. People, this is a fantasy. If you like/agree with it, that is your choice. If you dislike/disagree with it, ditto.
the boss, apparently your fantasies are to be subject to authorization by others. Perhaps, in an effort to avoid censure, you might want to consider other words, even though less accurate for you, to get your ideas across. Perhaps "ravishment" or, as suggested, "taken", might be more acceptable to those who feel a need to judge your own desires by their standards.
Thank you to all those who had such negative comments about what some women WANT. I have lost the desire for some of my fantasies, since I will now be judged for having them, and I have lost the desire to post others here.
I'm glad that my thoughts are still my own. It's bad enough being criticized for "wrongful" thinking in a university setting. But to be criticized for "wrongful" thinking in your fantasies!...
So much for women's rights.
the boss, if you want something, and it affects no one but you and one who supports and agrees with you, and it makes you feel right, go for it. Don't let anyone tell you how to dream.
And to those who feel it necessary to criticize others' private fantasies, I certainly hope no one catches you kissing or touching in public. Because you won't be allowed to decide if it was consensual or not.

YOU ARE A SICK WOMEN!! GET SOME HELP!!

Either they can't read or they're so busy hyperventilating in apoplectic rage they don't think before they type. Chill, guys, and RTFA before writing a reply.

Don

Someone wrote:

RAPE A GIFT?

YOU ARE A SICK WOMEN!! GET SOME HELP!!

Thank you for your helpful suggestion. I would certainly get some help if I had a man who would oblige.

Not only are you sick, the boss, you're PLURAL! Get help quick before there's a whole crowd of you!

If rape is a gift, my benefactor neglected to enclose the receipt so I could exchange my gift for another size.

Anyone who wants to see the police photos, respond.

You've had a horrible experience. No-one here will make light of that.

Not everyone is as educated, liberated or enlightened as you smarmy pro-rape schmucks think you are. There are lurkers here, stroking off to this discussion, maybe looking at your sister jogging down the street.

But do you realize that those lurkers are reacting the same way with this response of yours? Saying

There's nothing like true terror to make her clench up tight, eh, boys?

is pretty graphic, isn't it? Does this mean you should have restrained yourself?

No, the participants here have a right to express their thoughts and feelings. It's too bad that bad men will misuse it. No censorship will prevent them – you'd have to keep them away from discussions of the problems of rape, or discussions that counsel rape victims, and so on and so on. Efficient police and uncompromising punishments are moe to the point.

The headline of this thread is sensational and incendiary.

I think it's pretty silly myself. The word 'rape' should have been in quotes. But I promise you, the would-be rapists would have found the discussion whatever title it had. And I won't accept that it's wrong to have the discussion.

From the Sexual Anarchism blog for 17 August:

I've been thinking of play rape a lot lately. My fantasies, my desires, often times come in stages. Certain times of the year I'm plagued with doubt surrounding my submission, unsure if I even feel submissive anymore. Other times I'm reduced to a fetal position by my desire to be had and to be taken. I need to feel out of control.

Generally, I let P in on all of this. He's aware what stages I'm in and how to either help me through them or take best advantage of the situation. I emailed him yesterday to tell him how much I need to feel raped.

All I could think of yesterday was ...

You'll have to read the blog to find out her thoughts - it's on the links page.

SA is a hot read!

Theo

So for all the men out there reading this thread, toying with the idea, I am telling YOU, at least SOME of us DON'T want real rape, even though we might like rape fantasy. I don't care if you are my husband, boy friend, whatever... I have a reminder for you: the law is on my side, and it is so for some very good reasons.

Guess what she wasn't talking about you. So get over it!

You know, there is a point on your wedding night where as a male you must "Do the DEED" get it done, under the law that is rape, and you can go to jail for it.

I view this topic as a man accepting the gift from his woman and enjoying it fully. My wife does not believe that a husband can rape his wife; in that I must be special from what I gather from some of the reactions here both male and female.

My wife wants me to enjoy her, has made no bones about it and feels that it is my right as a husband. she actually gets very upset if it isn't done every once in a while and starts thinking that I'm doing something else with someone else, or I have lost my sexual desires for her.

That will never happen, so, if I want it I take it, it's what she wants me to do, and I will keep on giving her what she wants.

Good heavens, has our culture become so "nannified" that every author or authoress who exposits on sexual subject matter must continually remind his/her Gentle Readers (who are, after all, supposed to be consenting adults who, presumably, have some semblance of a brain) about condom use, safewords and other such safety precautions.

Furthermore, I had the distinct impression that the "rape" or, if you prefer, consensual non-consent, scenarios as described by this authoress were being used within the context of a long-term, monogamous relationship. Indeed, this entire site, "Taken In Hand," appears to operate from within the context of an established relationship and that the "non-consent" is part of that ongoing and, ultimately, consensual relationship.

What you're doing is irresponsible pure and simple. Not once is your entire article did you mention consent or having a safeword. I have to question the motives of anyone, man or woman, who advocates playing hardcore rape scenes without a safeword. And where's the "wear a condom"? What about AIDS? Remember: Safe, Sane and Consensual?

Yall should check your definitions before even discussing such a subject. Try this URL: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=rape and this URL: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=ravish and this URL: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=forced and this URL: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=enrapture and this URL: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=taken.

Note in particular, that not all definitions of rape involve a lack of consent. Force does not needfully imply lack of consent. The connotations of the word in our culture have subjugated several of these meanings, yet that does not lessen the validity of the denotations. The legal definition, while useful for a woman wishing to prosecute a man, or a man in fear of prosecution, is not the only definition of the word. Note in particular also the following trail: rape-ravish-enrapture.

Before anyone attacks the article, they should note that their knowledge of the definitions involved are likely incomplete! How many of you speaking against the article actually looked up the definitions? How many of you presume that you know what a word means merely based upon your personal context?

That rant aside, my context follows: I am a man, and have had fantasies of 'controlling' or 'dominating' or 'ENRAPTURING' (or pick another if you prefer) women since long before I had any sexual interests. Aspects of my ideal life have been described in many articles on this site. I had a womanfriend for 4 years, and asked her to marry me last Christmas. She said yes, and plans were set for next August. It took a long time to trust anyone with those fantasies. In fact, it took me roughly 4 years to share the full extent and nature (we tried little bits at a time) of those fantasies with my love.

When she cracked open my shell, she didn't like what she found. She took off the ring. She claims to love me, but not that part of me (a specific behaviour) which she only recently uncovered. It is all very uncomfortable, and confusing, and hurtful, and unresolved. Ideally we would come to some understanding, because I really don't want anyone but her! For what it is worth.

This is just mean. Poor spelling can be because English is not someone's first language, and I have found that on the net, because it is a global village this is mostly the case. I think it is sad that people may fear posting on an English website because they may spell something wrong or get the grammar mixed up. People who can not spell may have a lot of intelligent ideas to offer. I think it is very brave to offer ideas even when you may fear getting the syntax or spelling wrong. English is a terrible language to learn how to spell.

Besides I am a terrible speller. Spelling has nothing to do with your level of education or your intelligence. A hint for people who have trouble with spelling: If you have a word processor that can edit in English you can use that to help you edit your post. I write my reply in the "reply" box. Then I cut it and paste it to my word processor. I correct the spelling and cut and paste it back. I had a high school teacher who told me that I would need to hire a good secretary to edit my spelling! Luckily word processors have made editing my own spelling quite easy.

Take care,
Tev

Morrigan, I can't quite think how to make it more clear that I was talking only about doing something the woman wants. If that is not what it means to be consenting, I don't know what is.

However, I appreciate your concern and would be more than willing to change my wording if I could think of how to express what I have expressed in a form that would not lead anyone to misunderstand. To that end, if you have a better idea of how to convey what I was trying to convey, I'd be very grateful to receive it. I am very open to criticism, I just have not come up with a better word to use.

The definition of rape is that is unwelcomed. If it's welcomed, calling it rape becomes problematic. Do you mean rape play? Because obviously if you were attacked by a man on the street you would probably object to it and would therefore be traumatized by the event. Not objecting to it is highly unusual although I suppose it could happen.

I guess what I'm saying is that the realm of the imagination and the world of playful dominace and submission roles are one thing and the actual act is another thing entirely. If something is defined by it's inherrent violence and use of unwelcomed force, it cannot be defined as rape when the seriousness of these elements are removed from the situation. Maybe your views on this would be more clear to me if I read further into your website but I'm lazy. I'm just wondering where you stand on this differentiation.
Marie

Who you are can only be defined by yourself, and what others think may only be because of a break in communication either from the writer or the reader. That Rom guy tainted this, like one drop of poison, just enough to divert all attention from the subject to himself and his beliefs, which are classic attempts to put his views on others unsolicited. I am guessing you are confindent in yourself enough to see through this and get back to the real reason you even entertained this site.

I have had many 'bad' fantasies.

Being tied up and toyed with... group sex... voyerism...

Now, both my husband and I agree that to playout some of these as they are would ruin our relationship, so we have worked out how to feed the need without ending up divorced.

We have purchased various cuffs, tie-downs, bondage tape etc... and tying me up to the point where I am helpless drives husband crosseyed as it is one of his fantasies too. ((we always have safety gear around in case something goes wrong)).

Group sex can be achieved by husband with hands full of vibrators. YAY!

Voyerism has me all blindfolded and husband taking photos with digital camera. After we look at the pictures we can safely delete. But it is so much fun.

I think that in bedroom play - there is always a way to get what you need, or a good substitute.

Sometimes it is good to be bad!

Cheers,

Suzette
"But sun it is not, when you say it is not, And the moon changes even as your mind: What you will have it names, even that it is, And so it shall be still, for Katharine."

I've been reading the comments and although there are many women who want to be raped but don't want the violence, I don't fit into that category.I'm a little bit more to the extreme. (Just a quick statement before I spill my guts...I have no history of mental illness or psychotic episodes)I'm a 27 yr. old mother of 2 young children, regular church-goer and Christian, and I have an EXTREME desire to be "fantasy" raped. My husband has done this for me by request but it doesn't give me the "high" of an actual rape that I desire. It's been set up so that he has been violent and unexpected but it just wasn't fulfilling. In my opinion, it has nothing to do with my spirituality...it has everything to do with a sexual high that I can't get through consensual sex with my husband.

I crave a certain amount of violence with submission, i.e., smacked, beaten, having a gun to my head, being tied up for days and used as a sex toy on demand by multiple men/women, etc... and I can't figure out why I desire it so much. At times I've even thought (but would never do) about setting myself up by going to a bar alone at night and have a few drinks, hoping it might happen. I just don't understand why, with my strong belief in Jesus Christ and conservative lifesytle, I am having these fantasies.

All I can say for the men who want to be raped by their women...I definitely agree with those who have stated to be very careful and make sure it's what she wants. Otherwise, it might/will change her emotional feelings for you whether you want them to or not. It might instill fear rather than a feeling of sexual gratification, which, in turn, may reek havoc in your relationship. I've seen it happen with a couple that I know. Take care and thank you for reading my "venting" post.

What a TERRIBLE thing to happen to your daughter. I can hardly imagine how devastating that must have been. I am sure that everyone here agrees with me that that was thoroughly evil. I was raped by a stranger when I was a young student, and that was bad enough. To be gang raped at thirteen must be a million times worse.

That is not what the article was about, as I tried to say at the beginning. The article was about purely consensual interactions. You may not have rape fantasies, but I can assure you, many if not most women do, or have at some time in their lives. Some women (and men) also fantasise about the woman being a slave with no escape, and they live their lives that way. This is also consensual. In both these cases, what we are talking about is very very far from the heinous crime of the same name.

Many rape victims, as well as those who have never been raped, have rape fantasies. For some, it is a way of coming to terms with what happened to them. You should consider the possibility that your own daughter might one day have such fantasies. If she ever reveals this to you and you react as though she is a child of satan speaking evil, you will likely compound the damage. I really hope that doesn't happen.

Before I can continue my comment any further, I feel confident in saying that I agree with the boss's outlook and I understand it. The word rape can be very misleading for many people because most of what's associated with this word is that which we hear about and see on the news. These are always acts of violence apon unwilling victims, and they are just that. I myself have a very fulfilling relationship with my partner of 6 yrs and I enjoy very much my partner's masculinity and I love it when he puts his foot down, so to speak. I trust him completely and when he is sexually aggressive or spanks me at times, it's okay because he is not hurting me emotionally, he is still loving, cherishing, and able to make me feel protected rather than harmed. Of course, in order to experience what I'm talking about, it requires a man and woman to very close to one another and have understanding of each other's needs. Violent rape is completely different. It lacks trust because the rapist is committing this act apon someone unwillingly. It lacks love because the person committing the rape is doing it out of anger or to subdue intense sexual and psychological problems within themselves, the victim serves as on outlet and in the end is left with all the negativity and hate. Despite what most people think, rape is not about the physical harm or the act in itself, it is the emotional harm that causes the most damage in sexual situations that lack trust and love. And that to me is the difference between it being bad or good.

This is crazy. A person who wants to find a reason to rape a woman will read this site and think, "she will really enjoy it if I have forcefull sex with her (i.e.rape) because look at all of these other women". You are giving criminals an excuse. Play out your fantasies in private if you wish, but give other women who have been victimized the respect of not advocating rape.

- concerned student studying Domestic Violence

You might like to read the preceding 236 comments. You will find a number of answers to your concern in those comments.

I wonder why you assume that the women who find this idea erotic have never been raped. That is quite untrue, and when you demonise a perfectly normal fantasy like this, you risk just adding more harm to the rape victim who is unaware that many other rape victims nevertheless have rape fantasies and feels guilty and miserable as a result. If this article and the subsequent discussion does anything, I hope it will help those women to realise that they are not sick or bad and don't need to feel guilty.

Keeping the truth quiet like a dirty secret certainly does not help rape victims!

Everyone in the world has fantasies, whether or not they admit it. I do - and sometimes they scare me. Sometimes, that very fear makes me feel very much alive, although my fantasies seem to be on a much lower, in fact on ground level, to what I've read in this long, long, thread on rape.

To me, the thought of actually being raped in reality leaves, NOT a feeling of being very much alive, but rather one of being emotionless and dead. However, the thought/fantasy of a man WHOM I LOVED VERY MUCH, taking me against my will, i.e. holding my hands above my head and taking his pleasure, does in fact turn me on. But I would only ALLOW, and this is where con'sensual' consent comes into it, a man to do this if I'd given that very consent.

I think what needs to be said here is that the boss, correct me if I'm wrong because there are so many posts here that the main point of the discussion is in danger of being lost, has in fact been raped.

Where is our love and understanding in what she is trying to say, for goodness sake?

I think she is trying to make sense of what happened to her - and not only that, but trying to make other women feel that it is not wrong, per se, to want to fulfil your fantasies - but in a loving and consensual relationship, rather than a brutal and evil act committed non-consensually that should condemn such perpetrators to hell.

The word 'RAPE' actually means to 'BE TAKEN ABUSIVELY AND VIOLENTLY AGAINST YOUR WILL', but it also means 'to ravish', which in it's own terms means 'to charm or delight'.

THE TWO SHOULD NOT BE CONFUSED.

Which makes me wonder if perhaps we need to use words other than 'rape' to explain this strange 'CONSENSUAL' desire in both men and women. Maybe, 'Taken In Hand', fits the bill here.

So many of you posting on this thread say how much you love either being spanked or being the spanker. However, if the receiver of the spanking does not con'sensually' agree to this, it is abuse. No more, no less.

Lois Lane.

Just one more thing. (Gosh I feel like Columbo)

I find it amazing that we human beings need such a huge volume of words in order to adequately express ourselves. Even when I think I think I'm doing a good job at getting my point across, I find that my audience often interprets what I'm saying through the filter of their own experience, upbringing and particular emotional state. So, try as each of us may, it's still going to be difficult to share precisely what we mean. Case in point; last night my husband and I had a conversation in the wee hours. I offered a fairly concise and subject specific comment, which he wholeheartedly disagreed with. He then repeated exactly what I had just said as though it was a brand new idea, except he used one different adjective. Ah, just one word, and he felt he was shedding new light on our discussion. When I told him that I had just finished saying that very thing, he replied, "No you didn't, you said..." Repeating not the words I used, but the way he heard the message I was trying to convey. It took another twenty minutes of discussion before both of us were satisfied that we'd been heard. And isn't that the point of these discussions? We need not only to share, but to be heard, understood, validated. (okay, maybe this is more than just one more thing)
I have an image that dwells deeply in my innermost private sanctuary of self. It's been there since the week before my forth birthday. It's an image that has helped to created my idea of sexuality. A small, very observant child, I often watched my older brother disappear into the basement where he opened the root cellar door, took something off a high shelf in darkness, then closed himself into the bathroom for long periods of time. Curious, I took the opportunity to face the boogeyman who lived under the stairs, and the other scary creatures who undoubtedly made their home in shadowy recesses. Trembling I dragged a step stool to the cellar, climbing to the highest step where, terrified, I thrust my hand into the void above my head. My small fingers contacted a thick sheaf of papers which turned out to be erotic pictures. Whoo hoo! (here's where the image gets seared into my brain-told you it can take a lot of words sometimes) Heart beating with fear of what might suddenly reach out to grab me from the darkness, as well as no small amount of anticipation, I clutched my newfound treasure and crept quietly into the brightness of the laundry room. One at a time, I turned the pages of the loosely bound volume, my eyes and mind taking in the vividly graphic images. Nipples on large breasts being pinched by rough male hands; stern faced men pointing as beautiful young women undressed; a whole series of period costumed lords and ladies, the men spanking plump female bottoms, the women's expressions communicating both mock horror and pleasure. I can still smell the mildew every time that picture pops vividly into my mind. Like a pop up on a computer screen, that particular memory tends to be persistent. Years later, I had sad occasion to experience violation. Not rape, but molestation by a friend's dad. These two events most likely are the source of my own desire for being taken when I have sex. I want a romantic, dominant man to simply wrest pleasure from me. Not take it away, but give it to me till I'm breathless with the power of it, via his forceful erotic authority. I don't want rape from a stranger. I do want to be overcome, ravished by the man I love. I want him to be the kind of man who can do that, and wants to sometimes. I also enjoy great heaps and bucket loads of tenderness, so there's a balance of sorts involved here. So on and on I've gone trying to share how these ideas appeal to me. Not to startle, offend or invite or condone crime. Simply in an effort to explain, without guilt, that I like sex to be rough and tumble and allow me complete abandon sometimes. That's enough out of me. the boss, thanks for being brave enough to broach this sticky topic, and allow me the opportunity to feel I may actually be heard.

the boss,
Can you compare the ideas in your response to Theo with the ideas in your "When Rape is a Gift" article?

Is it that "Rape is a Gift" when the relationship is going well, so the man will know the woman really "wants" to be raped, even though she protests. So he exerts his control only when she (and he?) determine the relationship is going well.

But in Theo's case, she really DOES NOT want to have sex when she has a headache, and Theo should know this implies the relationship is not going well because "head-ache" implies "bad relationship". So now he shouldn't exercise control, or perhaps he should exercise a different control, by being more attentive.

Seems confusing.
Could give a man a headache.
A reader

[I moved this comment from Given a choice between two men ... but on second thoughts, this subject should probably be a whole new thread on the readers' forum. - Ed.]

I just wanted to say thank you for this article. I have had fantasies of consensual rape to put it and had in the past felt like I was different. That there was no one out there like me. This makes me feel a lot more comfortable with my desires.
Jayde

*Would not a rose by anyother name smell as sweet* (Shakespeare)

I will only say this: I and a great many other women posting on this board have also been stranger-raped, just as you have, some of us repeatedly. I know your "horror." I have lived through it. But I still crave the sort of rape that is discussed in this article. Crave it with my entire being and I applaud the writer of this article for putting into words my own desires and thoughts and having the courage to post it.

If you are such a nightmare-plagued rape victim, if the horror is still recent in you, by the way, WHAT IN THE WORLD ARE YOU DOING READING THIS MESSAGE BOARD which contains articles that are bound to hurt you and bring back the horrible memories? I am pretty shocked that you would even be here in the first place if just hearing the word rape is so rough and hard for you. I've read this site on and off for years, I know it doesn't advertise heavily, you have to Look Very Hard to find it. So why did you look so very hard to find something that's going to cause you to re-live nightmares?

Maybe you can explain what you are doing here to me, but it seems like extremely destructive behavior to go searching around on the web for this sort of material, especially if your rape experiences are recent. Instead, I suggest you get some supportive counseling, counseling that will teach you how to control the self-destructive urges--I mean that sick behavior of placing yourself with your own hands back into the victim role over and over again--that can be such a big byproduct of stranger rape (been there, done the self-destructo thing too, it's very important for a healthy and happy future life to get a handle on it).

Oui, effectivement.

What happened to you was a foul and horrible thing, and utterly disgusting. But what the people on this site fantasise about happening to them is not what happened to you. I personally am left cold by the whole rape thing, it does nothing for me whatsoever, but the idea of somehow having sex 'forced' upon them seems to be a turn-on for a lot of women.

My experience of fantasies is that you're basically stuck with them. I fantasised about being spanked from an early age, I thought that was pretty weird until I found out how common a fantasy it was. And although it seems pretty odd to me too, the forced sex thing seems to be a common fantasy too. A man who would want to rape a woman in reality is a sick person. A man who would 'rape' a woman in the way that she desires, as women on this thread have described is simply indulging her desires the way my husband indulges mine when he wallops me. It's not the same thing at all. Counselling might be helpful for a woman who has actually been raped, but I seriously doubt it would be of much help for someone who is simply having rape fantasies. If you can find someone willing to indulge your fantasies, you're fortunate, whatever those fantasies might be.

I wrote elsewhere that a man who harms a hair on a woman's head should be punished very severely, and I view any physical hurt as being an entirely different issue. And of course I am a man who has never known what a woman feels being raped. However, I am troubled by this idea that being raped is so terrible. Growing up as a boy and a man, males routinely experience physical violence from other males. Even if a man might prevail much of the time or eventually emerge as a winner, almost every man has been beaten up by a bigger, stronger boy at some point in his life, probably very often.

So if you think rape is bad, try getting beaten up physically (and of course that does happen to both men and women).
I fail to understand how having sex against your will -- as wrong as that is -- can remotely compare to being physically beaten up and bruised by another male. Humiliating? Imagine being a male who is supposed to be strong enough not be a victim, and yet be beaten to a pulp by another male. You want to talk humiliating, on top of the pain and bruises?

So while I do not wish anyone to be ever be injured, and I also do not wish any woman to experience sex unless she wants or agrees in some form, I just cannot stomach this idea that simply having sex is such a horrible thing, even worse than a man being beaten up by another man. It is wrong. It is surely uncomfortable. It is something to be legitimately angry about. Such men should be punished decisively, promptly, reliably, and severely. The woman is NOT to blame.

However, obsessing over it just makes it worse in my view.
This idea that it's the worst thing that a woman could ever go through, I don't think so. Try trading places with a man and get in a bar brawl and get physically beaten up and bruised by another man. Simply having sex that you didn't like having is bad... but not as bad as being a boy beaten up by a bigger boy growing up.

Sometimes you can make things worse by building them up in your mind and turning them into a big deal, when it is healthier not to look at it as the end of the world. A bad thing can become worse by obsessing over it.

I had a friend who talked about his children: When one of his children fell down and scraped his knee, he would say "It's okay, get up," and the child would simply shrug it off. On the other hand, if he made a fuss about it "Oh, are you okay!?? Are you hurt?" then the child would start crying uncontrollably and EXPERIENCE the pain far more deeply, far worse.

Whether you love your husband or not, you don't necessarily feel like sex every time he does. You may be ill, or just very, very tired. Does a wife have an unrestricted right to have sex with her husband? Even if (as is sometimes the case with my husband), he is simply too exhausted to do it? Any man who thinks he has a right to have sex with his wife whenever he feels like it, regardless of her feelings in the matter, doesn't sound to me like a very nice man to be married to. A selfish pig, I would say.

And as for marriage vows meaning that a man has unrestricted right to have sex with his wife, that was not the case even in the days when everyone got married in church, not in England anyway. In 1685, a man was hanged for raping his wife. And nowadays many of us get married in registry offices. I have done this twice, and on neither occasion can I remember the registrar saying anything about my husband having the right to have sex with me whenever he felt like it. And you say that you don't think a man should use violence towards a woman, but what if she refuses to have sex with him and the only way he can make her is by using violence? Is that all right? (sorry if this is too barbed, but it's how I feel)

So, Exploring Man, you don't think that forcible penetration, in and of itself, constitutes 'physical hurt?' If so, your knowledge of the mechanics of sexual intercourse must be rather scant. Furthermore, even if the physical damage from forced intercourse is slight, the emotional scars can be terrible. Clearly you have a hard time putting yourself in the shoes of rape victims, but try to imagine that another person acts in a way that makes it clear that they consider you to be no better that a toy, an instrument to be used. Now imagine that the person who treats you in such a way is your intimate partner, someone who is supposed to love and cherish you. How would such an experience make you feel?

As for your assertion that one's marital vows implicitly include submission to each and every sexual act that one's partner wishes to engage in, this isn't a view that many people would countenance. Yes, spouses have a general right to sex, and long-term refusal of sexual intercourse is a violation of one's marital obligations, but marriage isn't the means by which you gain a sex-slave. Sometimes, your obligation to love and honour your spouse overrides your right to any single instance of sexual expression.

Lastly, I find it rather rich that you counsel rape victims to be more stoical, when you yourself patently fail to be so when it comes to violence against young men.

I was responding to the post 14:11, advsing rape victims not to obsess. The previous post had a different flavor entirely. I found the second one insensitive.

Obviously there's a huge controversy over this. But few have mentioned the practical issues.

There are women who can handle this sort of thing, and there are those who can't. There are also those who can't, but think they can. From a man's perspective, the problem is telling them apart.

"I've always fantasized about being raped" is a bad sign. So is heavy romance novel use. Those are the ones who panic when it gets real.

The kind of woman who likes rough sports and isn't afraid to get dirty or bruised has real potential. Women like that won't freak from a bit of rough play. Find a lover unafraid to wrestle in the dirt, and you've found a jewel.

Hi T. Brownie,

I never gave any details about my attack, never said it was a stranger, never condemmed the people who fantasize about it. You made a lot of assumptions.

What happened to me happened about nine years ago, and it has had a lasting impact on my life. Not because it was overly brutal or excessively violent like some I have heard of, but because it hurt me inside.

I came to this site because my husband and I practice DD. He is definitely in charge in the relationship and I would have it no other way. I love and respect him, same as he does me.

I completely understand wanting to be taken, to be so desired by someone that they just can't help themselves, so to speak. That, in itself, is a form of flattery. But my objection to the article was the use of the word itself and I must thank the great people who responded so eloquantly to your unfortunately impolite response.
I am not condemming anyone for their fantasies. I would, however, advise with some caution before using that word. I'm not here to simply argue semantics, but rape is a loaded word that carries a lot of emotional meaning for some people who have experienced this sort of thing.

Yes, I have been to therapy for years, yes, I have a loving, wonderful husband, and yes, I do still suffer the after-effects of this event almost a decade later. I congratulate you that you were able to recover fully from your ordeal. I still stand by what I said that anyone who knew what I have been through would not use that word.

After reading this article and the replies to it, I have much to say. I think rape is about power. Coming from someone who is infatuated with the subject, women want to feel helpless. They want a part of them being taken away and knowing that they cant stop what is happening. In most cases I've come to learn that women who want "rape" usually have some linkage in their past that made them want this sort of thing. It has to develop from somewhere. It doesn't just manifest on its own. Maybe something of some sort was taken away from you and now you feel it is natural to have your willingness taken away as well. Maybe you've led a very dull or sheltered life and finding something this extreme fascinates you.

Whatever the circumstance, there are a lot of acts labeled wrong and distasteful going on in this world. just because someone desires something not to your liking doesnt mean its wrong. after all, we are talking about consensualism here and what you do with your partner in your own bedroom is your business right? I am a 21 year old girl who has put much thought in the idea of this sort of fantasy for years and years to come. Feel free to post your opinions for I am open minded and will not judge you solely for your differences. To each their own.

Given how hard and fast you had to backpedal in your first paragraph, why didn't it occur to you that you could have chosen a better title for your commentary here? You say 'rape' is not what you actually mean. So don't use the word rape. You're adding to the confusion of idiots the world over. And if you can't think of a word or expression that actually describes what you really mean, maybe you shouldn't be publishing your writing.

Rape is forced sexual experience against a woman's will. If a woman WANTS a forced sex encounter with her husband, etc., how can it be termed rape? The word rape implies without consent.

I do not have rape fantasies, but I do have fantasies of being SEDUCED by my husband. A seduction (esp. a BDSM seduction) can LOOK like rape...but consent is the ticket here. I fantasize being grabbed, held, overpowered, by my husband in a romantic episode. It's not rape, but to an outsider it might APPEAR to be.