I've spent many hours studying the dynamics of relationships, including the "Alpha Male". One needs to look no further than the "Hero" of the romance novel to understand that there IS such a thing as the alpha male. Romance novels comprise 50% of ALL published works. Of course these fictional characters embody all those qualities that attract females, and intimidate "beta" males. For those who claim that the alpha male doesn't exist, never forget that we are biological creatures, regardless of your spiritual beliefs. How many times have we heard complaints from women about the unfeeling, selfish men they've been with. There are men who have the alpha male qualities, yet are unbalanced in that they are abusive, dominating, have no self control, and are selfish towards the women in their lives. Nevertheless, these are the men that, generally speaking, many women gravitate to. And not just once. They do it over and over. Luckily, there are those alpha males who are not abusive. They are kind, compassionate, balanced, and treat their mates with nothing but love and respect. I am a male. I'd have to say that these "alpha" qualities have eluded me for most of my adult life. However, i am now 43 and have noticed that things are changing. Women seem to gravitate to me more in the last few years. Much has to do with my own personal growth, confidence, assurance, etc. I have a brother who women have ALWAYS thrown themselves at, literally. He would get propositioned on the street, in bars, coffee shops, bookstores, anywhere. I've tried to figure out what it is about him, but have yet to understand. He obviously has that "Alpha Male" quality, that eluded me for so many years. I now enjoy engaging in conversation with women wherever i may be. I initiate conversations, not with the intention of seducing the woman. Just for the pleasure of talking to them. I am unattached to any particular outcome. Just enjoy intelligent conversation, and making people smile. And i keep that little boy gleam in my eye. Everyone loves to see a twinkle in someones eyes.

Dan

I've always been an Alpha Male without knowing it or even knowing what it meant per se. I feel the perception tends to be one of the hard-bitten, rugged type. Alas, that would be pigeonholing the concept. For the AM comes in all sizes, colors and types.

What I've discovered is that the AM is often produced by his environment. For example, ordinarily a bookish sort might be a so-called NERD among one group of men. But among other Nerds, he may well be the AM and thus those women who like that sort of guy will find him to be "irresistible" out of the available nerds.

Thus, this is why you can't or shouldn't TRY to be an Alpha Male. Just be yourself and some woman will find that being you is in and of itself an Alpha quality. When you are yourself, your inner spirit takes note of this and helps you exude a certain confidence. Chiefly, this is due to you having found your center, a balance, if you will. And balance, after all, is what you MUST have to be ATTRACTIVE (at least it feels that way to me).

Other people have always said i was kool. I've never described myself that way. Yet, other guys have always said they wanna be like me. Sure. Whatever. I've just always did me. And i think that's the most one can do. Many women have found this attractive, many have not (but even that's balance in my book).

Essentially, I've lived my life in many ways based on the old adage: "DONT BRAG ABOUT IT, JUST BE ABOUT IT."

I could be very aggressive and driven at work, but very kind and emotional with my wife. Or I could be very aggressive when playing sports but very kind and considerate when I change my son's diapers. This whole ALPHA garbage is just somebody's theory (no proof) of what they "think" women want. Obviously nobody on this website has a clue what women want because each woman is different...and until you open your mouth to communicate with her you'll never find out. Playing head games and trying to act ALPHA in order to have sex with a woman is purely egotistical and selfish. My advice is to be honest, stop trying to bullshit your way to a woman's heart, and steer clear of those who are attached to the idea of what a man should be. If you act FAKE and you attract a person who believes you're real then you will never ever find peace in this world because you'll always be lonely, even while your with a woman.

Each of us are alone...even those who are married, and our partners only see a fraction of who we really are. Nobody will every truly know or understand you, even those who love you dearly. So by even faking that little part of you that you share with others will make you even lonelier and more disconnected that when you started out.

Whatever you do...don't believe the bullshit that people have written on these webpages. Go find a good book on "how to communicate with women" and do some personal development work on yourself.

Good luck!

I can't see a situation in which I would arrive after a woman who belonged to me. If we were to be there there together, we would arrive together.

As for the remainder of this scenario, my friend and my girlfriend would have a crystal-clear idea of what I consider acceptable behavior, but if, on the off-chance that they chose to display their lack of regard for me anyway, I would quietly inform them that their relationship with me is over. I would be very calm and icy cold, but there would be no doubt about my anger in this.

Blatant disrespect is intolerable in a friendship, much less in a romantic and monogamous relationship.

KrosRogue

History shows that lots of quite normal people do have some desires that are dark and troubling indeed, and that they occasionally proceed to realize them. Pornography (and Internet) shows that some sexual desires are not the exception.

You've written about "reckless willingness and primal desire to do whatever that man wants". But he may want just too much. Or he may just want to try limits of his power over you. Probably you do have some limits even in that emotional state, do not you?

Excuse me for some personal questions, but I need to ask them to understand where do you stand on this and what you really meant when you wrote your article (or when you supported it).

1. What if he, this alpha-male, wanted to do something that would leave some bruises on your body in places where they may be detected by other people, so you'll probably feel embarrassed? Would you consent to this? Would you consent to "non-consensual activity" if you knew that it would probably result in this? I'm not asking have you ever been in this situation (although I would appreciate the answer). I'm asking only about your feelings at that time, not about what actually happened.

2. What if he were openly getting sexual pleasure while you were screaming in pain (in vain)? Would you consent to "non-consensual activity" if you knew that it is quite possible? Is this something that you can accept as a recurring phenomenon in your relationships, or you'll rather break up with him? If you have ever been in this situation did you feel humiliation?

3. What if he wanted to engage in activity that would to some extent loosen (permanently) your anal sphincter? Would you consent to this? Would you consent to "non-consensual activity" if you knew that it would probably result in this? Once again, I'm asking only about your feelings at that time, not about what actually happened.

"1. What if she, this submissive female, wanted you to do something that would leave some bruises on her body in places where they may be detected by other people, so you'll probably feel embarrassed? Would you consent to this? Would you consent to "non-consensual activity" if you knew that it would probably result in this?"

I might, if I had enough trust in her. Would I, in the real world? I doubt it. I seriously doubt that I could ever trust any woman that much. A request or desire of that nature just requires more than I am willing to give. It requires more trust than I have ever given in my entire life.

"2. What if she were openly getting sexual pleasure while you were causing her to scream in pain (in vain)? Would you consent to "non-consensual activity" if you knew that it is quite possible?"

This is the stuff fantasies are made of. Have I thought about it? Have I wished for such a thing? Yes, of course! Would I do it? I seriously doubt it. Here again, trust is a big issue. If I ever found a woman I could trust to that degree, she would most certainly be a prize to be cherished.

"3. What if she wanted to engage in activity that would cause her permanent bodily damage? Would you consent to this?"

This is a hardline issue for me. I would not and could not do anything that could conceivably cause permanent bodily damage. If she stressed this issue too much, that could cause me to end the relationship.

Mike Starre

1. Why do you find that hard to "trust any woman that much"? From my point of view all you need to know is that she is honest with you, that she is a responsible adult, and that she really consents to this. It's not easy, I understand, but it's not at all impossible or even unlikely (except maybe the last part - she may just refuse).

2. If she is getting pain and pleasure simultaneously, if she consents to all this and you can trust her - that's OK. But these are just practical matters. What is interesting here is what's in it for you? Why do so many men want their lover to experience sexual pleasure and pain simultaneously? What is so exciting in it?

3. That sort of permanent body damage that I mentioned in my "Questions" (question #3) is not at all uncommon. In fact, it is often looked upon as "no big deal" and maybe as not body damage at all. It is good that some people besides physicians understand that it IS permanent body damage.

However, when you paraphrased my questions you missed a point (although you raised some interesting issues yourself). I did not ask would a man consent to enacting some fantasies/desires of his woman. It's an interesting topic, but I find the question, would he INITIATE these things, to be even more interesting. If you trust your woman enough, if you truly believe her, would you try to discuss these issues with her? If she on her own does not have a desire to experience these things, but it is possible that she would consent, would you try to get that consent? It is entirely different situation, because it is her body, her pain and YOUR fantasies, as opposed to her body, her pain and HER fantasies in your paraphrase.

Or she may consent and then change her mind later. Then she may decide to press charges against me for assault, for whatever whim she may feel at the time.

That would just mean that either she was not honest with you or is not responsible, or maybe just did not truly consent. You should know her rather well before engaging in such activities. Communication matters. Free decision-making on her part matters even more.

So, we return to the problem of alpha male. Feelings of woman under influence of appeal of an alpha male, as described by the boss, make communication and free decision-making very problematic for her.

An alpha male has his own problems in communication with woman in this situation too. "The quiet confidence to know for sure that he will prevail" is appealing, but unrealistic in the final analysis, and "the daring to go for it and take what he wants" makes him prone to dismissing others' input too easily if it does not fit into his view of reality and perception of the situation. "Why bother if I usually know better?" I'm not saying that alpha males are doing this all the time - no of course, otherwise they would not be successful - just that they are PRONE to it. So it isn't at all easy for him to assign her words and her perspective the proper weight in his perception of the situation, especially because in this emotional state she is not assertive (at least, not enough).

So, in the situation described by the boss rational communication between parties is severely hampered. That makes abuse possible (and even quite likely) even if man initially does not want to abuse her. He is a fallible human being after all. And when he finds himself in this situation he is tempted to use his power over her - maybe just to test its limits, or to change the woman so she would fit into his ideas of what ought to be, or to enact some of his favorite sexual fantasies, and so on. He may consciously reject temptation, but her eagerness to be with him and FOR him will sooner or later make him falter under pressure of subconscious desires.

After some time she would get enough and would try to change something, and because by that time he had already invested much in the relationships and probably likes all of it the way it is, he would use his power over her to prevent this from happening and/or punish her for disobedience. This would probably make matters worse, so the cycle of disobedience -> abuse of power -> even more disobedience -> even more abuse goes on until the woman gets more than enough. At some point she would quit relationships, and possibly press charges against him. Or, conversely, she would press charges after HE quit, when she realizes that she's been simply used, and quite brutally at that. She did consent to some rough stuff - maybe, to some rough sex, or to being dominated, or both. But she did not consent to being just used. So she has a strong reason to believe that she was abused. I think this is the mechanism that is behind most cases of "consensual" abuse.

If she can't enjoy it, that would definitely put a huge damper on my desire to do that with her. If she doesn't desire it, then the consent doesn't matter. I won't do it.

I really like how you put it.

I don't think you are sadist in the meaning usually ascribed to this word. As far as I understand you don't have a desire to humiliate or dominate her. If so, it's wrong from my point of view to label your fantasies and desires as "sadistic", because I believe true sadism even in its mildest forms has definite flavor of humiliation and disparagement. It's about making somebody to be or appear less than she (or he) is, sort of less than fully human (or at least less than grown up, independent and responsible human being that is an end in herself rather than a mean to somebody else's ends). From what you've said I think this is not what you want to do with her.

Sex and pain are phylogenetically linked. Ability of male and female to coordinate and synchronize their movement during copulation (especially in the moment of penetration) so as to avoid pain altogether is relatively recent development. We can be pretty sure that most of our mammalian but not yet human ancestors were not able to do so. And we still carry their neural paths along with us. It is possible that when you see and hear that your lover experience pain mingled with sexual excitement during sex, it is for some older part of your brain a convincing proof of the fact that copulation is going on, and that conventional ("vanilla") sex is not enough to reach out to that part of your brain. It well may be that for a woman situation is quite similar except that it is a mirror image of your situation: she should experience this herself rather than witness your experience.

If this is the case with your fantasies (and if my theoretical model has merit), I don't think it is right to call you "latent sadist". I think much of ugly stuff that makes lots of porn quite detestable (at least for me) results from confusion of the desire to witness (or experience) pain mingled with sexual excitement, with sadism (or masochism) in its conventional meaning. It's sad that so many men can't express their desires and enact them with willing partner without some sort of disregard for her. It's even sadder that some women try to make submissives out of themselves just because they (and their partners) can't conceptualize their sexual desires and experiences without notions of "conquest", "subservience", "obedience" and so on, so they have to struggle either with their own sexual desires or with the fact that they are not submissive. I mean, there are folks that are truly submissive, but it seems to me that many of so-called submissive women just pretend to be submissive (even before themselves) because it's the only way they can get what they want.

Well, of course I may be wrong and desire to cause pain is a concentrated expression of attitude "wow, I CAN do it to her" pure and simple, but at least this is not the only possible explanation.

>> He may consciously reject temptation, but her eagerness
>> to be with him and FOR him will sooner or later make
>> him falter under pressure of subconscious desires.

> I can see where that can be a problem, particularly with
> a woman who has a malleable personality.

That can be a problem whenever one person has power over the other person, especially if their relationships have sexual aspect since sexuality tends to become a focal point of our psychological problems.

> Ideally I would enjoy using her as a toy and she would
> enjoy that interaction... I think a temporary lack of
> regard enhances the experience

I don't think that lack of regard can be temporary. However, if you are using her as a toy, this does not necessarily imply that you disregard her. You wrote in previous message: "If she doesn't desire it, then the consent doesn't matter. I won't do it". So you need her desire, not her compliance, and in this bow down to her decision. I don't think it is lack of regard. I don't think it is domination either.

When I wrote my previous message I overlooked one more possible explanation of desire to simply use another person sexually and cause her pain in the process. When she is "screaming and writhing in pain mixed with pleasure", it is a very strong expression of acceptance. She is in pain that was caused by your actions during sex, and she still wants you. You are using her as a toy and nevertheless she submits to it. "Probably I'm not that bad after all!" You are doing something bad to her, something that you don't want to be subjected to yourself, and still she doesn't reject you. She accepts your "dark side" and is not afraid to deal with it. It can be very soothing. It is affirmation. It is approval. It may work even if on the conscious level you think that she is just masochist and is using you to enact her own fantasies, because it is acceptance of your "dark side" anyway.

However, there is the other side of the coin. If in the course of your relationships you for whatever reasons fail to address ALL your insecurities (it is quite possible because we usually try to avoid being aware of them) you may become insatiable, and your sadistic tendencies may increase up to the point when she would no longer be able to deal with them. In my personal opinion it is always better to talk through the personal insecurities and psychological problems of both partners as thoroughly as possible and use any sadomasochistic activities only as last resort, only when there is no psychological means to address the problem.

> That's true, a mutual desire is essential, and if it
> weren't there, that would annihilate any sexual
> attraction I may have had for her. There wouldn't be
> much of a relationship after that.

Mutual sexual desire does not mean that she shares your fantasies. Why would the fact that she does not find them to be particularly appealing ruin your relationships? I think you are afraid that if she got to know your fantasies but did not find them to be appealing she would reject you as person, that she would think you are nuts. Well, if she would think so that of course will ruin your relationships. But she may just accept you as you are without the desire to enact them.

>> I don't think it is lack of regard. I don't think it is
>> domination either.

> Then what would you call it?

I don't know. But it's not important anyway.

>> When she is "screaming and writhing in pain mixed with
>> pleasure", it is a very strong expression of acceptance.

> That is quite a bit more than mere acceptance. It's
> active participation and enjoyment.

That's not "mere acceptance". It is a very strong expression of acceptance of YOU both as a person and as a sexual partner, and this acceptance is something we all are passionately longing for.

>> talk through the personal insecurities and
>> psychological problems of both partners as thoroughly
>> as possible

> That would have been done at the very beginning of the
> relationship.

It can't be done at the beginning of the relationship because it should be going on through the relationship. It's impossible to disclose oneself to another person quickly due to the sheer amount of information one need to transmit in the process. Speech is rather slow for purposes of information transfer :) Besides, it's not at all easy to begin really disclosing oneself to the person who is almost a stranger.

>> use any sadomasochistic activities only as last resort

> "Last resort"? Does that mean there is a "cure" for my
> "problem"? ;-)

Mike, all people have problems. If I didn't have problems, I wouldn't be here. (By the way, I disagree with most of what I've found on this site. Nevertheless, I think this site is great. It pushes me out of my comfort zone, presents some uncomfortable facts and forces me to reconsider much of what I believed to be true. In short, it makes me think, and in doing so it helps me grow.)

Yes, I think you have problem. You admitted it in one of your previous messages, when you in effect confessed that you passionately want something that you believe is nearly impossible to find. It is a problem, isn't it?

Pain may have different meanings for different folks in different situations. But besides any other meanings it may have it has one primary meaning: it signals that some tissue is about being destroyed. Little pain means little damage that can be completely healed rather fast. Some more pain means more damage that takes longer to heal. Even more pain means even more damage, so it can be healed fairly well, but not completely: regenerative capacity of human body is limited. Still more pain means palpable permanent damage. And so on.

Of course, sometimes pain overestimates damage, for example during spanking - that's why spanking is more or less harmless. Sometimes, on the contrary, it tends to underestimate damage, for example when a person is highly sexually excited. But most of the time pain estimates the damage fairly well.

In my opinion, you should imagine woman that you'd like to be in love with, imagine the kinds of pain you'd like to subject her to (in terms of actions that would cause her that pain), and try to understand what damage this actions would do to her body and what effect those experiences would have on her psyche and your relationships. Can this body damage be healed completely? How fast it can be healed? (It's unwise to subject the body to the same damage before it is completely healed because it would lead to permanent damage). Wouldn't you object if she was subjected to these experiences if you were not into this "sadomasochism" thing? Wouldn't you feel guilty afterwards? Wouldn't she feel unloved afterwards (if she were not masochist but really wanted to do this for you because you need it so much, and honestly tried to enjoy giving you something that is so important to you - it's not that impossible)? And so on. In short, would you really, wholeheartedly want to do this with her?

It takes time to answer these questions honestly. It's not at all easy. But I think you need to find answers to these questions before calling yourself "sadist".

But if you are married to one, then it won't matter if you meet another one will it? I mean, nobody needs more than one man like that in their life surely? (for me even one like that would be too much, they sound way too overpowering for me, I couldn't cope).

Whatever happens if two of these men meet head-on? Do they just try to intimidate each other until one wins, or do they not bother, and just agree to only try and intimidate other non-alpha men?

Louise

The fact is both sexes have alpha personalities. I personally have pondered if it is genetic or a learned trait. The cold hard truth is we are what we make of ourselves through our own action or inaction in life or is it.

For example why is there one boy or girl others look to for advice when growing up... you all know them the leader the decision maker....not the one following. If you think about your own childhood you were either a leader the one others asked what you wanted to do or a follower the one asking.

Without the female alpha there wouldn't have been a women's lib movement if some alpha hadn't stood up and stated what all knew but were afraid to speak out loud.

It is a power in a sense that courage of conviction. And yes it can be used for good or evil the path you take with this knowledge is up to the alpha. Knowing others will follow no matter where you lead. So with this knowledge comes great responsibility.

To know what others feel when I enter a room and to watch them as they watch my every move.To talk to a complete stranger and within hours know every secret of their lives as if they are compeled to tell me. This you know to be true for some time in your life you met such a person.

Now for the true shock to all you women. We know the state of your arousal: when you stand across the room it assualts us from every part of our being. We are able to see you stripped of all of the trappings of society and just female. There is no politically correct way to say this but to say these gifts are real, not smoke and mirrors.

You hit the nail on the head. Seems like confidence is the main thread in all the comments. Confidence in taking control, confidence in speaking to women, confidence in a stressfull situation. Unlike most of the commenters, I've met several alpha-males in my life (I'm only 27). Just like most others, I'm captivated by their presence. Their self-belief radiates from them, pulling others toward them like a magnet. And leaders must be confident.

I don't find it strange that you would laugh at a directive from one man, and want one from others. I tend to feel vaguely submissive towards men I am attracted to, and tend to hope that they will get dominant with me. if I'm not attracted to a man, then I have no desire for him to give me directives, and I wouldn't much care for it if he did. These days, with my husband, I tend to be hoping all the time that he's going to get bossy with me.

Louise