What a great read and so right. My partner will do anything if I ask, however, telling him to do something would make his hair stand up.

Western society overall has become sloppy about good manners. The media promotes the bratty behavior of celebrities as if it matters. Women have been wrongfully led to believe that by being assertive, they will be perceived as stronger and will get what they want.

Please and thank you are of course good words for everyone to use, yet sound delightful when spoken by a woman. I refer back to the book that has been discussed on this sight and often snickered at it unfortunately seems, Fascinating Womanhood, in which the author relays the very truth that women who are courteous and respectful are highly regarded by men.

Well, I never realised the word 'please' could be so exciting to a man. I can't say I've ever noticed a man getting excited when I say 'please' to him, but perhaps I didn't say it in a feminine enough way. But then being feminine isn't really my strong suit anyway.

I do generally say 'please' to people if I am asking them to do something for me, doesn't everyone? I'm not sure that my husband finds it more exciting than "I'll make love to you allnight long" but that would in any case be a promise I would be unlikely to keep (both of us would probably be asleep long before the night was over).

I can't say that the word 'please' has any effect at all on my sons, who never pay any attention to anything I say to them anyway. My father would have done anything for me whether I said 'please' or not, but I imagine if I did ask him to do anything for me I would have said 'please', it's jsut common civility isn't it? I can't remember ever asking my brother to do anything for me, but if I did I would certainly say 'please', why wouldn't I? I don't think he'd get very excited about it though.

I generally put the garbage out myself, so that's not a problem .I would simply hate having to ask my husband to spank me though, I like him to decide when he wants to do that. Having to ask for it would take all the thrill out of it.

Does anyone really not say please when they ask someone to do something for them? I find that quite extraordinary.

Louise

I think in general most people do say 'please' & 'thank you'. However, it is very easy to overlook the importance of these words, especially to our spouses. We become 'comfortable' with each other & it makes it easy to forget our manners sometimes.

I haven't found out that it always works, though. Maybe some of the men here can help me out with this one. This is one area that I can & do get very frustrated with my husband.

We have a very traditional relationship. I pretty much handle all of the housework, cooking, decorating, social schedule, etc. He handles taking out the garbage, mowing the grass, fixing things around the house, etc. For whatever reason, it doesn't always seem important to him to do the projects that need done & fix minor things.
This just infuriates me.

I do feel that I shouldn't have to ask for him to do these things all of the time. I feel like a nag (& so does he) if I do. And each day that passes that no step is taken towards accomplishing these tasks just makes me resent him more & more.

I try to do things for him. I'll take the trash out for him or mow the lawn for him. I do these things not because I have to, but because I want to make his life easier. Maybe it's that nurturing thing inside me. I feel that if I go out of my way to ease his load & make him happy that maybe that will inspire him to choose on his own to get some of the things done that he KNOWS really are bothering me. This doesn't always work.

So, if please doesn't work, & nagging doesn't work, & going the extra mile for him doesn't work... what will??? This is thing about men that I find truly mind boggling.

Oh, and I agree with the editor.....please, please, please write some more articles, CarlF! :) My husband really relates to your views. Your posts (and others) have sparked some great conversations between us!

Dynomite

Thank you, CarlF, for your article. I particularly like your fourth and fifth paragraphs, in which you describe the practice of asking without asking, and ascribe to it a pernicious effect. You're spot on there. I might go further: no matter the sexes involved--if one wants to ask for something from someone, one should ask for it--directly, politely--and not pretend it's something else. "The grass needs cutting," "I wonder if my tire pressure is okay," or even "I need a good, hard spanking," are not requests, but unfortunately in our mixed up world, they often pass for them. A real request requires risk. that is: I ask this of you, recognizing that I may be turned down.

Perhaps you should try the 'Surrendered Wife' technique, and just not bother doing the things that he's supposed to do. Let the garbage pile up and maybe he will take to putting it out. Be more passive to make him more active. That is the theory behind 'Surrendered Wife' anyway, and it might work for you.

Louise

I think the hardest part for me of accepting this is the potential of hearing 'no.' No matter how the question is asked, be it with 'would you mind,' or 'please,' if I bothered to ask it was because it was pretty important to me, and being told 'no' hurts my feelings. Telling me 'no' is a refusal to meet a legitimate need, because if I didn't need it, I wouldn't ask.

I think that's probably why I get suckered into so much myself. If you ask me to do something, I assume the need. How heartless would I have to be to say 'no' to a heartfelt request or legitimate need?

There are two main communications styles (according to Kiersey). Role Directive ("Paint the garage"), and Role Informative ("The garage's paint is peeling"). While everyone will use each from time to time, different personalities will tend toward one or the other more often. This is not a matter of intelligence, or of leadership or following, it is merely how certain people normally express themselves.

It can also be, as we have seen, a major source of friction if the communications styles of the two individuals are different.

The Directive person may feel the Informative is being "evasive" or tricky, when all they are trying to do is help someone who may be in a position to do something about it by pointing out that a sub-optimal state exists. They don't want to presume just HOW that state is to be addressed. Maybe the person doesn't want the garage painted because they plan to completely re-side it. Or maybe they plan to tear it down and build a swimming pool.

On the other hand, an informative person may resent the directive telling them how to fix the problem, when they have a perfectly good plan in mind.

The cure, of course, is to sit down and discuss the issue, without issuing a "one liner" - either about its state, or what should be done to address it.

And of course, saying "please" never hurts. :)

"I hope Sparky will write more, also. Thanks for pointing out how all the comments can sound all lumped in a pile that may be interpreted as never being able to do enough to please her and then getting frustrated. This is very helpful to know."

I agree! I wish I knew this ten years ago! All this time I was going about it all wrong. I didn't even realize how I was frustrating him so. It really does help to hear our men's point of view on these issues.

I would like my wonderful husband, Sparky, to write more also. He is a very intelligent, articulate man. Last night he gave me a very detailed, written plan of how he was going to guide me to my full potential. In the beginning of this plan he included his thoughts on adults living to their full potential. I think it would make a great article that would help many! I plan on asking him to do an article on the subject with a very feminine 'please'! ;)

Dynomite

"By allowing him to say "no" you are giving him the ability to assign that pain to you sometimes."

While I understand what you are saying, in a relationship both partners occassionally hurt each other, accidently though it is. I do not see myself as the only one with the potential to cause pain in the relationship, nor do I see any reason I should invite the pain of rejection.

I find it much easier to simply not express the request if I feel that there is a potential that he will say no. For example, if I ask him to go for a walk with me and he says 'no,' it is not the fact that he won't walk with me that hurts as much as the feeling of rejection. The feeling that I'm not important enough to give that time and attention to. Rather than risk that feeling of hurt I tend to mask it as: "would you like to go for a walk with me." If he says no, he simply wouldn't like to, and I'll go by myself, but if I say, "please go for a walk with me" and he says no, he knows it's important to me and still denied the request. That stings more. Doing it my way he still has the opportunity to say no, it just doesn't sting quite as much if he does.

I suppose it sounds rather spoiled, but I've never really been able to handle hearing 'no' when I truly want something. Better not to ask, in my mind, than to risk hearing 'no.'

This is a tough one for me because while I believe that saying please is polite I resent saying please about household chores. A man doesn't have to beg me or say please to me to get me to pay attention to and take responsibility for our home. I just do it! It is just natural for me to assume that as an adult he will tackle home responsibilities with this attitude as well. Please feels like groveling and gives the appearance of what I am asking him for as taking him for granted. I wouldn't put a man in a position to do this and I would wish for him to be mature enough not to put me in one as well. The laundry list of "to--do's" works both ways and can be just as overwhelming to a woman but I don't hold a man asking "what's for dinner?" or "Do I have clean socks?"... as never being able to please him. It is a natural response to living together and sharing a life together. If a man is truly being overwhelmed by his domestic responsibilities then outside help may need considering and he should communicate to his wife that he feels burdened, but resentment of her tells me that he is shucking his adult responsibilities and making her his fall guy.

When I was single and raising my daughter by myself I never resented her for the domestic responsibility of owning a home and all that it entailed. I mowed the grass, planted and weeded the flowers, cleaned house, ironed clothes (I hate ironing) and it never occured to me to resent anyone for having to do this, nor did I find it necessary for her to say please for me to find motivation as I am an adult and this is part of my job of having a family.

I do say please in areas that have to do with non-- domestic responsibilities as in "I know that you dislike so and so but would you please accompany me to her/his party?" or if I know that he doesn't care for the rollerblading as much as myself or a night out dancing I would say "please, please take me" or "go with me". If he tells me no I mostly accept this answer with the occurence of an occasional pout if it is something that I really wanted.

Please has it's place but for me it is not in reference to our adult domestic responsibilities.

I always wondered why when making a comment like "Gosh the grass is long" some men seem to treat it as an imperative to fix the very thing I'm commenting upon. In fact to me it's just a comment, along with things like "It's a beautiful sunny day today" or "That wind is strong", an observation. If I make a comment such as "We're low on bread" then I follow it with the action of putting it on the shopping list to include when I go to the supermarket later. To me these things are just observations. I have a tendency to vocalise. They're not intended as indirect requests. If he doesn't cut the grass I don't mind wading through it or if it really bothers me, I'll probably do it myself.

Rather than an inability on the part of women to put requests directly and courteously, I think a man reacting with resentment to a statement of this kind perhaps reflects that the man feels overly responsible and burdened in some way. Why attribute his reaction to the woman? It's his reaction.

I agree that it's not helpful for a woman to say "I shouldn't have to ask". I'm of the opinion that requests should be made directly and clearly. No one should be expected to be a mind reader. However I agree with Precious Baby. Why should there be careful and courteous requests to do with household tasks or an established division of labour in the household? I don't expect respectful requests to clean the toilet, or whatever I customarily do. Surely people normally just get on with these sorts of things?

I know that my boyfriend wants me to be more direct. I think it's a difference in how men and women communicate. I am indirect and seldom ask for things (as I said earlier, if I don't ask, you can't tell me no). He finds the indirect "hinting" to be annoying. I find asking for something to be pushy.

A lot of men find "hinting" to be annoying because it is dishonest and less than honorable. A hint - an indirect request - avoids the risk of rejection, and is thus cowardly (in general from a male perspective).

An indirect request puts him at risk (if he ignores your hint, he risks hurting your feelings) but keeps you safe (since you can deny that it was ever a request in the first place).

By making a direct request - and allowing him to say "no" - you give him a double benefit: shared risk *and* submission to his authority.

To many men, a hint is just as pushy as a direct request. It just isn't as honest.

Now, I say that as a *general* communication difference between men and women. Of course, all generalities come with standard caveats, such as YMMV.

These kinds of issues are covered extremely well in the book You Just Don't Understand by Deborah Tannen.

I think the difference in communication style might be “in general” as you say, CarlF. I am a woman and ask for things directly. If I make an observation like “The grass is long” then it’s just that, an observation. It’s not intended to propel my partner into action with the mower, yet I find many men do indeed react that way.

I’m just as likely to observe and vocalise something that needs doing which I have every intention of doing myself.

It might instead be a difference between how something is intended and how it’s received. Possibly it’s the standard difference of men being more action or achievement oriented or keen to be seen as being on top of things – in general - and women being more verbal. Women tend to be talkers and men doers. With bereavement for instance, it’s been documented that there are differences – in general – between the way men and women grieve. Women are more likely to want to talk about their feelings and men are more likely to find expression in doing things, for example carrying out the deceased person’s last wishes.

On the occasions that I ask directly and my man says “No” well, I can take the disappointment. It’s par for the course in life that there will be some refusals and sometimes of course it’s damn sexy to be told ‘no’ in the context a Taken in Hand relationship! As noted, it entails the man exercising his authority. For the rest I assume that my partner is a responsible person and that I won’t have to nag him to complete chores, directly or indirectly.

As a person who has a tendency to make direct requests, I do become irritated with indirect requests. However I just wish the person would say what they mean and make things clear rather feeling resentment because I feel I’m being manipulated into something. Once the thing is ‘out there’ and I know what the person wants, well then I can respond accordingly.

I, too, tend to state my mind and don't beat around the bush. I think many men have been trained to think that women are generally hinters and don't get to the point of what they're really after. Just the other day, we were with friends and I brought a controversial topic up for discussion. Awhile into the discussion, I brought up a related issue. One of our male friends referring to me said, "Ah, that's what this is all about." No, it wasn't about that. The secondary point came to my mind later. What IT was about was what I'd brought up in the first place. If I'd thought of my secondary point initially, I could just as easily started the conversation discussing it. I was kind of irritated at him but then realized that that was probably indicative of how women in his life have communicated with him. I believe his wife to be somewhat like that. So, sometimes it comes down to patterns that have been established that create certain expectations of conversation styles. Over the years, I've done my best to let my husband know I'm not a hinter, and more or less he's caught on and it's not an issue.

Lucy