I must admit that, in this situation, I would have been pretty annoyed myself. It doesn't seem to me entirely unreasonable that you should be irritated that your husband hadn't done anything to get ready for your outing while you were asleep, or else woken you up so that you could help.

In this situation, my husband would most probably have got everything ready by the time I woke up, he might make some mildly sarky comment about me managing to sleep while he was doing all the work, and I might get a bit peeved by that, but he would nip any irritability in the bud.

Maybe your husband didn't really want to go on this outing, is that what the problem was? Was he getting in your way because he didn't want you to be ready on time? Didn't he think you would be annoyed that he hadn't done anything to get ready while you were asleep? it sounds like it was something he wasn't terribly keen on doing.

Yes, but isn't a man who is HOH supposed to keep on top of things? Is it reasonable for him to both be HOH and still play the helpless male "OOh, I don't know how long it takes to get ready for a picnic, I don't know what food to pack, i didn't think of waking you up to get ready" etc.

These are not terribly difficult things to do: as my husband would say, it's not rocket science. Isn't a man who's HOH supposed to have more of a grip on what's going on? shouldn't he be more involved? Not playing the Peter Pan type, waiting for Mummy to sort everything out.

Louise wrote:

Yes, but isn't a man who is HOH supposed to keep on top of things? Is it reasonable for him to both be HOH and still play the helpless male "OOh, I don't know how long it takes to get ready for a picnic, I don't know what food to pack, i didn't think of waking you up to get ready" etc.

These are not terribly difficult things to do: as my husband would say, it's not rocket science. Isn't a man who's HOH supposed to have more of a grip on what's going on? shouldn't he be more involved? Not playing the Peter Pan type, waiting for Mummy to sort everything out.

Actually, I don't think he needs to be on top of everything anymore than I need to be. I didn't give up worrying about and trying to do *everything* just so he could start. He has his jobs, I have mine. This is not one of his. Putting things on the wall, that's one of his jobs. Carrying heavy things, that's one of his jobs. Killing the bugs, that's one of his jobs. Those kinds of things.

No, it's not rocket science but neither is making money and that is not something I worry about. Why is him letting me worry about the house being a Peter Pan? Does that mean that my staying home and letting him worry about the money makes me a little girl waiting for Daddy to take care of me?

He doesn't play the helpless male. As I said, he just doesn't think of these things because he doesn't have to. I do. What he would probably say if I asked him why he didn't get ready (which probably wouldn't occur to me) is, "Well, I assumed you had it under control." Now when the time got close he would probably ask me if I needed any help or something. He might wake me up when it got nearer just to see if I had decided not to go or if I needed to get anything ready but it is also very feasible that he might lose track of time or get busy doing something else, simply because it would not be in his mind.

In our relationship, we have pretty clearly defined roles and they are pretty traditional. That, just like our HOH status, helps to clear up ambiguity for us. We like it, it works for us.

I said that this is something that my husband would do, but I would not have gotten annoyed at him. I would have been annoyed at myself for sleeping so long or forgetting to set the alarm. I would not have been annoyed at him because I would not have expected him to get ready for the party. It's not like he would have spent the time I was asleep sitting on his lazy butt. We do have three small children around here at times. He was probably doing something with them. Silly man, worrying more about spending some of his precious time at home playing with his kids rather than doing my job! How selfish of him!

I know that there are many people who do not set their relationship up the way we do any more. My husband does not know his way around my kitchen (yes, it is *my* kitchen). I get up at 5 a.m. every morning just to make him breakfast. It would not occur to him to start dinner if I was late getting home, unless he talked to me first. I do not take the car to get the oil changed. No matter how tight money gets, I do not think about getting a job. I do not worry about the check book.

Does this mean that either of us *could not* do these things? No. He did just fine taking care of all of us when I ended up on crutches after the birth of my son. All I did was nurse and PT. I did the finances for years before we got Taken In Hand. This is just the way we *choose* to divide the labor in our house. It works for us and we like it. I don't think it makes either one of us immature or lazy. And, no, I don't think it makes him a Peter Pan to step back and let me do my job.

Yes, there are obstacles and hangups but there would be no matter what. There certainly were when we had an egalitarian relationship.

Maybe some people think that an HOH is supposed to be some Superman who can watch over and be in control of every little thing like some omniscient god. Mine's not and I wouldn't want him to be. That's not what our Taken In Hand relationship is about. It is about defining our roles in our relationship, his role being the HOH and mine being the supporting partner. I'm not sure where you got Peter Pan out of *that*...

Otter*

"The moment that I looked into your eyes, you owned me."
-Kenny Chesney

Being a HOH does not mean you have to be good at everything. I am the one who takes care of the schedule in our house. He is good at other things. I think to be a good HOH you need to know your strengths and your partner’s strengths. That way you are going to be better able to make decisions. My husband is not as good as I am at getting the family out the door. I have more practice. But I am not as good as he is at fixing stuff around the house. I cannot see how being a good HOH means that you have to be able to do everything by yourself.

I do not think that my husband is an idiot because I am better at getting the kids out the door. I should be able to do that since I have done it several times a day for almost 10 years now. After a while we find that we just rely on the other person to do what they do best. If I did not tell my husband I wanted to be wakened he likely would have thought that I had planned it that way. He would have thought that if I wanted to get up at a certain time, or start getting ready at a certain time that I would have prepared for that. Because I do such a good job at getting us organised he would have just assumed I knew what I was doing. Same as I think about him when he cuts into the plumbing, or rewires part of the house. I would just assume that he had those things under control and that he knows what he is doing. I guess I just do not assume that he will be good at everything, even things that I do all the time and find very easy. He is capable of figuring those things out, but unless I ask him too he will just assume that I have that part of our life under control. Things run more smoothly when we both do what we are good at, so being a good HOH for us means that my husband allows me to do my best work and he does his.

Take care,
Tevemer

Being HOH certainly does not mean being on top of everything. If we had been in the same situation my husband would probably have either woken me up or packed up the stuff we needed himself. However there are definitely things that I`m better at; one of them is saving money (that`s why in our relationship he doesn`t have to take complete control of our money) cooking, cleaning and so on.

There are some things that he might not pay as much attention to as I do but that does not make him incapable of doing things, he just does it in a different way or he believes certain things are not that important. If we would`nt have enough time to pack up some food when going on a trip, we either would leave later or stop somewhere on the way to get something.

If I were to think that for him to be head of the household he would have to be in charge of everything I would`ve been disappointed a long time ago. There`s been a few times before going on a longer trip when I had to remind him to check the oil and the water on the car. Even though that is his job he just didn`t think about it: nobody`s perfect, not even a head of the household.

Autumn

I tried thinking what would happen if in this situation my husband had gone to sleep, knowing that he had to be awake in time to do something, and I hadn't awakened him. I think he would probably be quite irritated, understandably so.

This would actually be something that would be much more likely to happen in our house, since my husband is the one who goes to sleep at the drop of a hat, whenever he sits down anywhere for longe than about two minutes he nods off, whereas I never do. And yes, I think I can safely say that he would be irritated at not being woken. I never normally wake him up when he goes to sleep, but yes I would if I knew there was something he wanted to get done at a particular time, assuming that it was something I couldn't do myself. If it was something I could do myself, then I would do it without waking him.

If he woke up late and I hadn't done whatever it was that needed doing, and I hadn't awakened him in time to do it, then yes I do think he would be annoyed, and I wouldn't really be surprised.

I am not sure if the whole point for us is whether it is reasonable for me to be irritated or not. The point of our Taken In Hand relationship is what we do when one or the other of us IS irritated with the other. Why have a drag out, knock down fight over something as small as being irritated over not being ready on time for a picnic? Really what does it matter whose fault it is? We can spend all day and all night placing blame, and establishing fault but in the end who cares? What matters is how we handle the problem once it arises. We have decided that we are not going to let a small thing like being 10 minutes late out the door ruin a really wonderful day out with our kids. In the past this might have happened. So I can see how this could work. It is not that I am a doormat; it is that this way of working things out works for us.

We have had situations where I have felt annoyed with Mike because I felt I was doing everything and he not enough. In the past I would have blown up at him, we might have had a fight; we might not have spoken to each other for hours. What is the point of that? Now he can give me a hug and firmly say in my ear, "Calm down." This has the effect of calming me down. I suppose if you need to be righteous and if you are right, then you need to make sure he understands his wrongness then this situation, and it's one type of solution will not work for you.

We do not worry so much about fairness and being right and who’s to blame. In the end it is whether we can say that we had a better day because of the way my husband took control of a potentially emotionally charged situation, or not. If he did take charge and we had a wonderful day what is wrong with that? We are both happier; we have both spent a happier day. So what if it does not seem fair? So what if I had a "right" to be annoyed. Perhaps I could have shown Mike how wrong he was, how does that change anything? How will it make us happier? If I want to later I can talk to Mike reasonably and ask him to please pay more attention to details and a help do more to get us out the door. He certainly does not mind if I have these discussion with him. He will likely change if I feel I need him to, and he is capable of changing. That is what this Taken In Hand stuff is all about to us. In the moment it is not always important. In the moment keeping us connected even though one or both of us may feel annoyed is what is important.

We no longer think it is necessary to have a crappy day over a minor annoyance. We have realised that we can solve this minor annoyance AND stay connected at the same time. In the end if it is too late and we are running late, what is the point of telling Mike all the things that he could have or should have done to avoid this situation? In the end we will still be late. What is important is that we minimise the effects of being late if we can and get on with our day. Later we can discuss how to avoid the potential of being late if we want to. I do not see it as Mike shutting me up, to prevent me from voicing an annoyance. That is not what Mike does when he whispers in my ear that I should calm down. What he is doing is what he knows will work to get us through the situation. Later we can discuss it, and later he will be more likely to listen too and I am more likely to listen to what he says too because I will not feel so emotional about it. He may have some reasonable ideas too on the subject.

Taken In Hand and my husband being a HOH to me is more about knowing what to do to keep us happy and connected. I know it is not for everyone, but calling someone a fathead is likely the last place to start if you hope to find a mutually acceptable solution to a problem. In this situation my husband may very well know he made a mistake not waking me up, or not packing things up, or assuming that I had things under control. Obviously if we are late, then a mistake has happened. But once it has happened what is the point of dwelling on the mistake? Why not do what we need to do to minimise the effects of it, ensure that we have a good a time as possible despite what has happened, and figure out together how to avoid it next time later. Discussing it while we are late will only make us more late and exasperate the problem. Anyway I can see how this could play out this way. It is not about the HOH having to be perfect, but how to deal with the situation when things that are less than perfect happen. We can spend two angry hours discussing why we are late, but it will not make us less late. It may not be fair, but I would rather spend a happy day with my family then a cloudy one when for us there is no reason too. This is something that could be discussed later if we want to. If I was still feeling like discussing it later we certainly could.

Take care,
Tevemer

Tevemer wrote:

I am not sure if the whole point for us is whether it is reasonable for me to be irritated or not. The point of our Taken In Hand relationship is what we do when one or the other of us IS irritated with the other. Why have a huge fight over something as small as being irritated over not being ready on time for a picnic? Really what does it matter whose fault it is? We can spend all day and all night placing blame, and establishing fault but in the end who cares? What matters is how we handle the problem once it arises.

This is exactly my point. I was happy that I controlled my temper even though I was very annoyed. I was also happy that my husband took me in hand verbally instead of allowing me to get out of control just because I was irritated. The issue of who was at fault could be taken care of later if it still seemed important later. Frankly, we never talked about why the whole thing occurred. It really didn't seem that important after the fact. From my perspective it was just one of those strange misunderstandings that happen in marriage. At least in ours. I think we were both out of sorts, tired and cranky that day and that had a lot to do with it. The important thing was that we stayed connected and we didn't get into a huge fight. In the past I would have acted like a total bitch and then he would have gotten really mad at me because I was being a total bitch. A huge fight would have occurred. There's no reason for either of us to get into a temper over something as silly as running late for an event. We both worked together to get us there and we were only a half hour late. It didn't matter. They hadn't even started the meat yet.

I got to enjoy my husband taking me in hand in a nonphysical way. I love it when he takes me in hand verbally. It's very seducing for him to be firm with me that way. It wasn't like he invalidated the fact that I was annoyed. It was just that he didn't allow me to have a flip out about it. He firmly reminded me to stay in control of myself. I love it when he’s like this. I waited for years for him to be this way. I would much prefer he firmly remind me to control myself. It was lovely. It was in fact much more lovely than having him physically take me in hand because it was such a calm, unemotional way to disperse the tension. I loved the fact that I could respond well to his firmness without him needing to take me in hand physically to get me to control myself. I really love it when he acts like this.

I do not find that I am suppressing my emotions in cases like this. For one thing my husband would know that I was annoyed because we were running late. Whenever we are running late, which is not that often, I am annoyed. Our husbands just have a different way of taking us both in hand in this situation. But it sounds as if they both work. When my husband takes control during a situation like the one described I find that I do not feel like I have suppressed that emotion. That would surely be wrong and my husband would not want that. For one thing I am not very good at suppressing an emotion. If I am even somewhat successful at suppressing it, it will surely come back some time later to haunt us.

Most of the time my emotions are right there on my face. My husband can tell by the colour of my eyes the emotion I am feeling. What we have found is that when Mike takes control in situations like the one described in the article, my emotions change. When Mike whispers in my ear firmly for me to calm down I start to feel calmer. I can actually start to feel less frustrated. It just works for us. Mike does not want me to swallow my frustrations. What would be the point of that?

The situation mentioned is a minor thing; at least it would be for us. I am not talking about the frustration I might feel if Mike were to suddenly decide to spend our life savings on lottery tickets. In the minor things that come up in life, Mike can take control of the situation. I seem to respond very well to it. In fact not only will I feel calmer, I'll likely feel turned on by Mike and actually quite good. It is not that I have suppressed my feelings of frustration but those feelings could actually change into feelings that are quite different.

Maybe it does not work this way for everyone. That is ok because I am not everyone. Your husband's approach sounds very sensible to me and I can really see how this could work. In fact I could see how this approach might even work for Mike and me. I think for myself, so long as we end up feeling good, and in love, to me it makes little difference how we got there. When it comes down to it the whole Taken In Hand thing seems so off balance and one sided sometimes to me too. I cannot explain why on earth it works. But it does work for us. I just do not think my husband is being lazy, or a fathead, or an idiot because he chooses this approach. He chooses it because it has worked very often for us.

Take care,
Tevemer

I think, for me, in this situation, something like what forty something husband did would have worked because the only reason it sounds like she was feeling frustrated was because of the mood she was in, not the situation. Another day, another time, another hormone level and she probably would have woken up and just gone about the business of getting ready without being annoyed at all or blaming him for it.

I get this way too, sometimes. Today, my husband *not calling* me on the way home will annoy me because I am PMSing and feeling needy. Next week, his *calling me* on the way home will annoy me because I was late getting dinner out or whatever and now, I have a million things to do at the same time. It's not his fault, but it is easier to berate him (in my mind) because of his thoughtful gesture than to look at the fact that I got myself into this mess, LOL.

My point is, his warning to calm down worked to dissipate her feelings (at least from what I can see and knowing how this would work for me) because there were no real feelings of frustration towards him, there were just feelings of frustration about the situation. In my mind, when I realize that these feelings are useless and even talking about them won't help anyone, they usually just fizzle out.

I guess this is more of an issue of attitude than feelings. When he tells me, authoritatively, to check my attitude, then I feel turned on and when I focus on that, that feeling takes over and it is easy to change my attitude to a more positive one.

If the situation were different and there was really something to be frustrated about and I started to get bitchy, my husband would say, "Hey, you need to check your attitude!" or just give me that look that says, "Is that what you *meant* to say?" Then, if I have a real frustration, the feeling does not go away, but I am still able to check my attitude and not say something mean and inappropriate. I can then say, "I'm sorry but I feel really frustrated (or worried or angry or whatever) because of AB and C." And then we can talk about it in a productive way.

In the original situation, when my husband took control to get me to check my attitude, I might have said something similar, "I'm sorry I'm bitchy, I am just really frustated and stressed about being late." Which would be the truth. I wouldn't probably really be mad at him for not waking me up, since when I thought about it, it wasn't his job (as explained in previous posts). However, this may have not been necessary because I would realize in my head that I was just frustrated about being late and that very realization would have calmed me down and dissipated much of my frustration.

So really, I don't see any suppression of emotions going on. I see the dissipation of a pointless and irrlevant bad mood that could have been caused by any number of unrelated things that neither she nor her husband had any control over. I think the coolest thing about this is that they have a way to dissipate these things rather than letting them get out of hand. I find this is also true in my own relationship.

One thing I haven't said in all my postings on this thread is: Cool story, forty something wife, I can really relate to it!

Otter*

"The moment that I looked into your eyes, you owned me."
-Kenny Chesney

Forty something wife, I really liked reading what you wrote here. It reminded me that one of my very favorite things about my relationship with my husband is that I am not allowed to be bitchy or rude. It's been wonderful learning a new way to relate to men. No bitching about him being late, or not doing dishes, or anything.

As some have pointed out, it doesn't mean you have to suppress feelings. I am encouraged (required?) to pass on information, with humility and kindness. "Sir, I'm having trouble with something..." When I'm too angry, I say "I can't help it! I'm PISSED OFF!" and he listens, then we work it out.

And like another poster mentioned, it's is SO nice for him to come to me, trying to approach gently, then if I refuse him, taking me in hand, or in arms, literally, until I relax into him. It's such closeness and relief. :)